Speaker 1: 0:00

So I know, Ellie, that I normally say a joke to start the episode.

Speaker 2: 0:06

I always look forward to your dead jokes.

Speaker 1: 0:08

Yeah, I normally do, and I've normally got some really good ones. I was going to tell you a joke about yoga, but I thought it was just a bit of a stretch.

Speaker 3: 0:19

Oh.

Speaker 2: 0:25

I like it I lined you up for that one too, I lined you up for that one too you did. Well, I didn't think I was going to get one and I was full disappointed. But no, you absolutely laid that one there.

Speaker 6: 0:35

Thank you very much.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Well done.

Speaker 1: 0:38

Very good. And that was not just for you, ellie, that was also our friends joining us today, amy and Jack from the Tech Edition.

Speaker 3: 0:46

Thank you everybody for joining us. How the heck are you two?

Speaker 1: 0:48

You, good, you, good you well, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5: 0:54

You're like twinsies then the most enthusiastic yeah of all time.

Speaker 2: 0:57

Hey, do we need to? Before we do intros, do we need to go to the theme tune?

Speaker 1: 1:01

We're going to the theme tune when we come back, and then we'll be more enthusiastic about joining the company of each other. David Priest plays the theme song and Rev is all up.

Speaker 1: 1:18

The twins can actually have two voices, not one. All right, so, yes, we are super enthusiastic to be here, absolutely always. Obviously, the four of us gathered together for very specific and special reasons, and this reason it is almost end of financial year and maybe that's why when we said he excited to be here and there was a bit of a collective underwhelming. It is a few days until we hit end of financial year. How are we all feeling? Are we feeling good? Are we happy? Are we all feeling? Are we feeling good? Are we happy? Are we cruisy? Are we in control? Are we like what's going?

Speaker 4: 1:48

on. I was going to say did you want to provide a bit more context as to how challenging it has been to align calendars? And maybe the less than enthusiastic yeah is because of the time of the evening that we are possibly. You know we're recording this. Does that play into this? But I'm pumped.

Speaker 1: 2:07

It's not the latest. It's not the latest that I've recorded. It's only about 9 pm almost for Amy and I and 8.30 for Huling Jacks. It's not too bad, it's not too late, that's my bedtime, man.

Speaker 4: 2:17

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm spent.

Speaker 1: 2:20

I'm spent like I'm, I'm delaying bedtime for this like well, listen, as you heard at first, ali value values you more than her bedtime that is very true.

Speaker 5: 2:32

I value everybody I genuinely think my, my somber yes of feeling like we're here end of financial year is. I get so caught up around the end of march as well because of new zealand's end of financial year, and so it kind of feels like I've had a mini one already. I mean, there was no lunch, that would be nice, but uh, there's just so many end of financial years going on, like we just have this one that we celebrate in our podcast. But you know, like for the accounts out there looking for excuses to celebrate, you just have to Google, you'll find an end of financial year somewhere have a beer, enjoy yourself.

Speaker 1: 3:10

That's the benefit for you. Jack, working for an international tech business that's focusing on month-end stuff, you guys have always got a reason to party. Right, there's always something ending somewhere.

Speaker 5: 3:20

That's what we do. That's what we do, oh thanks, cheers, cheers.

Speaker 4: 3:25

My little sombre was because I actually literally had my end of financial year celebration last night, and I may be still feeling a little dusty post this celebration because we partied hard. We had a load of fun. It came off the back of two days of strategizing and pun totally intended. I have a hell of a lot more clarity now Post my two days of strategy. But yes, we partied hard last night so I am, as I said, still feeling probably a little dusty.

Speaker 5: 3:57

Well and.

Speaker 2: 3:58

And fair enough. And do you know what? I think mine comes off of the back of tax planning meetings for the last two months, back to back to back. Like you know, sometimes I'm getting five, six meetings a day and I'm exhausted, I'm so tired. My last one is tomorrow and I just can't wait. But then I'm counting down to those people that will you know, knock, knock, knock on Monday, which is the 30th of June, and say, hey, quick question.

Speaker 1: 4:26

Do you find? Find, though, like tax planning on the like tomorrow's the 26th of june, it's kind of pointless, like it's in that, like it's more of an informational session than it's a cash flow. This is what's already happened this is what it is like.

Speaker 2: 4:35

There ain't nothing you can really do now but how many more triggers can you pull these days, what it's plant, equipment and super like, there's not many.

Speaker 1: 4:43

That many triggers you can't you've restructured properly and actually this is a let me.

Speaker 1: 4:47

Let me lay this question out for you rip it out once once you've advised and work with a client to structure their business appropriately, which usually is where the best tax effective advice can come from from how you have things structured and whatnot. After that it's just little bits and pieces. Here. It's just about being smart and being aware on top of stuff. But I do find that there's often a few people out there that like to just remind their clients every year of like, hey, I saved you 30 grand this year. Well, technically, the advice you gave me five years ago saved me 30 grand this year, not the advice you did this year. There's a hard thing of reminding the value of what you've done over a long period of time.

Speaker 2: 5:28

Any any tidbit thoughts on that look, I, I completely agree, but people that are trying to find the value in it, you know, and like thinking that you're maybe good or bad based upon that they're not your client.

Speaker 2: 5:43

I don't really like those kinds of clients. For me, it's more a touching base. It's a really great touching base and making sure that my clients don't get tax shock. I think it's more cash flow planning, assessment of the year, little tweaks. That's all we really do. And what I'd love to know is what tools do people or accountants use for their tax planning, because I know that some people have meant about it year on year, on year and actually I mean, jackie, have you guys done like an episode where you talk about technology for tax planning?

Speaker 1: 6:17

don't call us out like that andrew, don't, don't throw us out, don't do that.

Speaker 5: 6:21

They haven't. They haven't throw us out.

Speaker 2: 6:22

Don't do that to us. No, they haven't.

Speaker 5: 6:24

Look at.

Speaker 2: 6:24

Amy's face.

Speaker 1: 6:26

I've got some notes in that, somewhere here I do which is exactly what I was doing just then.

Speaker 4: 6:30

I was like there is a new product on the market which I was like, ooh, that's kind of cool.

Speaker 5: 6:36

It is.

Speaker 4: 6:36

Yeah, because if you want to talk, like traditionally, from a tax planning perspective, it's been, I think that there's four there. From my perspective, it's been, I think that there's four. There's Excel, there's Change GPS. Actually, amanda Gascon does have one as well. She's good. There's actually five. There is also. You Can Do it In Zero, and I actually learned that from my friends. I did that one, I learned that from you, ali, so just yeah, you can do it in zero. The most recent one that I've come across, though, is a little product called tax fitness, which is pretty cool, is that connected to business fitness?

Speaker 4: 7:13

no, it's different. Um, it is a product that doesn't just do uh, tax planning. It also does benchmarking, and I'm pretty sure, and it also does business valuations, business advisory business benchmarking yeah business valuations. It's also quite cost effective, comparatively speaking to some of the more well-known options in the marketplace. Well, that's interesting, but obviously I mean I've never used it. Speaking to some of the more well-known options in the marketplace, I hope that was pretty good.

Speaker 1: 7:46

Well, that's interesting, but obviously I mean, I've never used it.

Speaker 1: 7:50

No, correct, so I'm not going to say it's any good, but I mean, what I think is good is there are a myriad of ways to approach that. We have a combination of the Xero and Excel, because we've built out a whole bunch of suite of things where we do stuff and we dump numbers in and it goes and things happen and magical, pretty stuff goes flying around. But we also use other tech around meeting tech and conversational tech around there to kind of make that experience good too.

Speaker 5: 8:13

There's another little player that had eluded me. Oh go Jack, it is Tax Torch. That was one that is UK-based.

Speaker 6: 8:22

that started in the early adopters hub and I'm not exactly sure where they're at right now.

Speaker 5: 8:26

I don't know if it's a product you could sign up to and actually use in Australia, but you can always keep an eye on it because most of those tools they have an intention.

Speaker 4: 8:33

I met that lovely gentleman when I was over there two years ago.

Speaker 5: 8:37

Lovely Scottish gentleman.

Speaker 4: 8:40

Yeah, I think so, yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 8:49

So there are quite a few products out there which um can support you through that tax planning. The other question is when do people usually start their tax planning? What month of the year do people usually give it a red hot?

Speaker 4: 8:56

when? When do they, or when should they, or both, come on? When should they start the planning? I would have said that they should start the preparation in March.

Speaker 3: 9:07

You're telling me that people do things.

Speaker 5: 9:09

They shouldn't do Proactively. They don't do things they should do. Sorry, oh you're funny, You're cute.

Speaker 1: 9:15

So the challenge, though the challenge of running like a tax planning advice meeting too early is if the dramatic things change between then and 30 june, then you almost have to go and revisit it. And so I I've had times in the past now I I should note that I do very minimal of these conversations anymore our team looks after all that stuff and I just sit back and be like we should make it cooler and more fun and stuff, and they tell me to shut up and go back into my room. Um, but but I've had many a time before where you deliver a piece of advice around tax planning in, like I could be like april, you know, early mid-april, maybe late april, even early may, and then like a month later they're like, okay, so like it turns out, we had a really really, really really good month and a whole bunch of stuff changed. What does it mean now? And then you're like, okay, we have to now revisit what this looks like and and depending on what happened between that period of time.

Speaker 1: 10:06

Sometimes there can be a fair bit more work. You're almost having to do it twice. So there's a fine line of not doing it too early, but not doing it too late to try and find that sweet spot.

Speaker 4: 10:13

I think, from a caveat perspective, it's more that you need to start preparing, as in like working out who is getting their tax planning, starting to educate the client base around what tax planning is. I mean, some of you obviously your longstanding clients already kind of know they get the drill but, you know, would you like to market the service to other clients as well. So it's that education piece that I think that you should be starting towards. You know, starting to prepare kind of in March to then have meetings in, as you say.

Speaker 2: 10:42

See, we wait to the end of march, once the march baz is done, because we've usually reconciled the files, and then we have a formula that we apply over the remaining april to june, but usually it's based on march numbers. So, yeah, we'll start. For us it's a non negotiable, pretty much like if you want to like, you have to you have to get what we refer to at least one advisory meeting a year.

Speaker 1: 11:00

Now, usually it's a tax planning meeting unless, as a business, in this situation, having a conversation on tax is not as valuable. If you know, if they're a big time loss generating kind of business, it's like cool, we'll dabble in it. But we really want to talk more about what you're trying to build on, what you're trying to achieve. But it's it's pretty much a non-negotiable because we can't sit down and be proactive around these conversations.

Speaker 1: 11:23

It's unfair on both them and us, because then there's an expectation that we're doing it even though we're not doing it, but also there's there's a a lack of engagement and connection between you know us and our and our client base to say, hey, like, what are we trying to achieve together and how can we support you in that?

Speaker 5: 11:37

too, and it probably saves you a bunch of painful conversations post tax time when they get the bill or they, you know, get, get the smaller refund or whatever it is, because you've had the conversation already you've explained exactly what's going to happen. They know it ahead of time. No, shake it ahead no, I, no, no.

Speaker 2: 11:52

I I completely agree with you like we've definitely had a lot better conversations with this less tax shock, and we actually have in our end of year pack, um, a paragraph around what we estimated for tax planning versus what you got and why there might be a difference. So it definitely stops a lot of the more terse conversations around I didn't know or I'm in a bit of shock. So it's definitely helpful from that regard. And the question I asked before Andrew was how much do you charge?

Speaker 1: 12:21

So we have a bit of a tiered approach to this of what we call like a basic and then a more complex, and then it goes from there as well. So for us, a tax plan starts at 800 bucks and goes up from there, depending on how complex it is, because that allows us to prepare properly for the meeting and actually do some proper work around it. Around it, yeah, sure, we could probably, you know, boot up as like a zero report and kind of like wet our finger, put it through there and go, oh yeah, you probably pay this much, but like we're not actually engaging with our clients enough and we're not valuing that time together. So, yeah, we start at 800 and go from there. Um, and I'd say like on average yeah, I don't know that amanda from our team, who, who passionately looks after our tax planning process, I think we run about 180 and she probably she feels like she probably does 95% of them herself because she's so engaged in an environment.

Speaker 1: 13:14

She'd know those numbers. But yeah, like, what about you? Are you like where do you kind of run on that?

Speaker 2: 13:19

so we run at 500 for very simple, up to about a grand or 1500 for more complex, and so, and look, I think everyone's kind of in that bracket 750 is most probably our average, if I look at the industry wide.

Speaker 1: 13:34

I kind of find that like 600 to 700 the kind of range is often where that conversation sits. It's a hard one because you want to make sure you're delivering value and doing it things uniquely, like. I know that like, yeah, like if things are done like a copy-paste, the same as everybody else does it, and you're not adding your own kind of perspective and thought process to it, it can become a bit stale, and so you think you have to kind of stay on your toes and really think about, like, how you're delivering a conversation in a way that's, you know, relational, impactful, but also covers off the technical requirements that you need to be able to do there too.

Speaker 2: 14:05

And talk about stale. I got to the point because I do a majority of the face-to-face tax planning meetings. It got to the point where I felt I really, really wanted an AI avatar to be able to talk my language and just load up the tax planning and somebody else do this please?

Speaker 2: 14:21

because I just felt like I was so robotic explaining it. Somebody else do this please? Because I just felt like it was so robotic. Like by the end, like after three months of the same conversation, it's really robotic and I was like, oh man, I wish there was an avatar that I could just overlay, I reckon that's a consistent thing I think in the space of advisory for our industry is that, like you know, you sometimes can build a really structured process.

Speaker 1: 14:43

That means you're going great, we can have a really consistent conversation, the same conversation with 100 people, and then it becomes stale and repetitive and you're not actually trying to think and proactive and deliver support and advice, you're just going oh, I better make sure I cover off these five things that I say. And so there's once again like there's a fine line of when you do it, there's a fine line of how you do it that actually is still relevant and impactful.

Speaker 2: 15:05

I think this is across all advisory. 80% is usually the same and then the 20% is the nuance and the customization and where the real value comes, because that's where you're really aligning it to the client and having that really rich conversation. But it can get really robotic. So I'm tired, I'm looking forward to a different conversation that is for sure.

Speaker 1: 15:24

Amy, you run a business. You had a tax planning meeting with your accountant.

Speaker 4: 15:27

I have. I did have my tax plan. How'd you find it was it?

Speaker 1: 15:30

we don't like actually, why don't? Maybe I don't want to go to in depth because they might listen to this podcast and be like, oh my god, amy just said I was good or bad. Um, but like, do you enjoy? Do you enjoy this time of year as a business owner, as someone who's like like hey, like this is like enlightening, this is empowering, or do you just? Is it like pulling teeth?

Speaker 4: 15:47

No, it's not like pulling teeth, I think, though, from these kinds of conversations, though, are not my jam, just generally speaking, right, I'm not typically a financial numbersy kind of person, which is why I'm not an accountant, like I don't get off on that kind of stuff like you guys do.

Speaker 4: 16:07

But my meeting was good though it was insightful. It was actually quite informative just in relation to the position. Equally, saying that, though I'm kind of across it as in like I sort of know what's going on. I kind of either know how good and or screwed I am prior to this kind of meeting. So it's a good touch point, it's a good understanding, it's good for my accountant to work out what's going on as well. Although flip side to that whole conversation is I still really struggle just generally having any accountant provide me with business advice, because most businesses or most accountants out there can't run your own business internally correctly.

Speaker 3: 16:52

Couldn't resist it sorry.

Speaker 2: 16:54

So why are you giving business advice? Yeah, and a lot of clients don't understand that. A lot of clients don't understand that.

Speaker 4: 16:59

And I get it I mean, it's kind of like you know the build of that, doesn't? I think that's the challenge here, right, it's actually? Well, it's financial business advice?

Speaker 1: 17:05

I think is, but that's the typical plumber that comes home and doesn't do this Go for it, go for it, come on, amy.

Speaker 2: 17:13

Bloody hell. This is the classic of a plumber not doing their plumbing at home or a builder not doing their building at home, right.

Speaker 6: 17:23

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 17:23

It's just you just get exhausted by it and I'm going to get out there and say the things that I love about tax planning season is that I get to engage with every single client and have lots of conversations and the. The thing that I hate about it is that you see the people in your client base that are dodgy as all hell and like, fight you on every single dollar, and you're like I don't know whether.

Speaker 1: 17:45

I want you to be my client anymore oh, they come in with their chat gpt advice and they're like, well, this is what I've been looking into. And they're like, yeah, you got that from chat, but you didn't you know. Like, yeah, I did.

Speaker 2: 17:54

I'm like, well, it's really wrong are you actually seeing more of that, andrew? More people coming in with chat, gpt, advice and you having to correct it.

Speaker 1: 18:02

I'm actually finding it with, because I spend most of my time with like kind of prospective, new engagements kind of stuff like that. I'm finding a lot of that coming through, with people saying I've been looking into it and this is kind of what I'm seeing, this is what I'm thinking. I'm like, okay, that's wrong, let's try and help you to unpack that.

Speaker 1: 18:18

But also I'm not, I don't want to be delivering advice in this meeting, but I don't want you think that you're just gonna come on and say I know, I know everything. So it's, it's, it's becoming interesting in terms of like it's almost helping me to weed out the kind of people that you wanna work with.

Speaker 1: 18:33

So if they come in with this real like oh, I know I've done the research and I've gone through ChatBT to figure it all out and you're like okay, but like you know that's what we do professionally and are you open to say more? It's more a matter of like I've looked into ChatGPT, I've got some stuff, but it doesn't really make sense to me. I'd like to have more. That's where I'm like great when it's used as like well, chatgpt says this and it's like uh-huh.

Speaker 5: 19:00

But isn't it interesting that this is clearly how people want it. They want something like if it can give them the answers. Maybe they want something like if it can give them the answers, maybe in two years or four years or ten years. They clearly are happy to engage that way. We're all happy to. People use it as a psychologist, for goodness sake. Kids use it to get parenting or deal with bullies. We're all changing very quickly. I use it for bullies, I use it when you bully me, but we're all adjusting to it very quickly, I think, and it's becoming very second nature. And I watched something the other day that was like there's a difference between people who use it as a tool and people who use it as a teammate. And so when you've got a teammate who doesn't deliver you the results, you don't just close it down and move on and say it sucks, you train it. Well, amy, you results. You don't just close it down and move on and say it sucks, you train it.

Speaker 4: 19:54

Well, amy, you might, I don't know. Sorry, I couldn't resist, but like you, know, you teach it.

Speaker 5: 19:59

You're like that wasn't a very good response because of X-Files. Anyway, all I'm saying is people clearly don't mind the idea of because I think to Amy's point earlier like a lot of business owners, it's not their jam. They love outsourcing it to an accountant, but if they could outsource it to a chatbot, that's equally as good, which it isn't now like they would love. That it's just. Is it a matter?

Speaker 1: 20:19

of time. What I find, though, is they go well. I've used Change APT for like 90% of it. I just need you to say yes and it's like well, hold on. I can't just say yes to this thing. I've got this job. Like we have to do it to deliver advice properly. I have to go through the whole process. I'll better chat. Gbt has already done 90% of it for you, like it's done 90% of the conversation for you. It's not done the research and stuff that we need to be able to do to deliver proper advice.

Speaker 2: 20:45

That's not like we can't and they could have put one variable in wrong and then it's completely guided the whole. You know incorrect advice and I think, getting back to your point, jack, I think at some point we'll just be fact checkers, like, no, that's not right from a GBT perspective and saying, no, it's this, this and this so. But there are always going to be those people that will rely on the tech and, like Andrew said, if that's what they want to do, that's what they want to do, that's what they want to do, but don't come and don't come to me then. And if you want that, that's fine, but that's not. That's not how we play the game.

Speaker 1: 21:19

Yet all right, I'm gonna. I'm gonna change the tone of the topic, because I like the rely on the tech thing. Let's be reflective. It's in the financial year where I've spent 12 months in the in what us accountants would call the year of 2025 we're about to move into 2026 in a few days time what has been the most empowering, exciting development in something that it is that you do, whether it's technology, whether it's people, whether it's a service delivery what's something that you've done that's new, that's cool, it's interesting. Before you answer that, though, whether it's a service delivery, what's something that you've done that's new, that's cool, that's interesting. Before you answer that, though, we're going to go to a bit of a sponsor break. We're going to hear from some amazing people. I want you to percolate and think. Over the last 12 months, what's impacted you the most in what you do, and why?

Speaker 6: 22:06

As you all know, marketing, branding and identity is something that's extremely important to me personally, as well as my business. Illuminate, ali, I know it is for you as well.

Speaker 3: 22:14

Important to us too, and you know what practice and pixels they are the best for digital marketing, website design and brands.

Speaker 6: 22:20

For accountants, they absolutely are, and they look after our brand here yeah, they do so you have a great experience, so good, but what I love about them is they take the time to truly understand what makes your firm different within the industry so they can accelerate your growth through fantastic marketing connecting your clients, your team and your community for good prosperity going forward.

Speaker 3: 22:38

Absolutely Get on to the branding practice and pixels, my friends Yo.

Speaker 1: 22:44

Ali, I'm sure you get asked all the time, just like I do. Who do you use for?

Speaker 6: 22:48

digital signatures and I know we use the same team, the crew at FuseSign right.

Speaker 3: 22:52

They're the absolute bomb. Yes, I get asked that all the time. It is digital signing done. Simply, my friend, it is amazing.

Speaker 1: 22:59

It's so simple.

Speaker 6: 23:00

I love it. It gives you great control, heaps of flexibility, and the experience for clients and team is quite exceptional too right, super easy to use on both sides. Bloody Easy to use on both sides.

Speaker 1: 23:14

Bloody amazing. Excellent. Get amongst friends, fuse your signatures today with Fuse Sign. All right, so who's going to go first? Ellie's shaking her head, saying not me, not me, not me, and so is Amy. So, jack, you're first up mate.

Speaker 4: 23:25

How about you go first? You ask the question, you ask the question, you answer.

Speaker 1: 23:29

No, no, I ask the question, you answer no, no, I ask the question, you answer the question, and then, once you answer it, I come to the end. What's been like over the last 12 months? What's something that's kind of rocked your world or changed your world in a way that you couldn't imagine it not being a thing now?

Speaker 5: 23:45

Oh, now I don't know if it meets the criteria. I don't know if rocked your world was mentioned earlier, but look, something. That's from a work perspective, which might be boring. So feel free, amy and Elliot, to think bigger and more exciting than this. But I have come from a background in accounting, as a practitioner Well, I don't know if I've used that word, but I was on your side, uh, for many of our listeners working in firms, working with clients, and then I moved to fyi where I worked with accounting firms, um, and it's only been in this role that I've worked very closely with finance leaders, so cfos, uh, financial controllers, financial accountants, people like that who are on the other side, and it's quite interesting to like get into that side of things over the last 12 months quite deeply and see how that's different and see where those things are, where those kind of personas overlap and where they don't. And you know it's a very different world, but I mean there's a lot of similarities. But you know, from a tech perspective it's been quite eye-opening.

Speaker 5: 24:48

We ran uh, which which was a big kind of project for me over the first or the last three months of last year. The first three, four, five months of this year was the, the stacked conference in sydney, which went really, really well, and that was kind of just cool. That was like a very cool, maybe rock my world level kind of thing. Uh, that happened. So, you know, we we brought together 200 ish cfos, finance leaders, which are people who are actually quite difficult to bring together and to get in a room coming from a background of zero cons, road shows all these events that accountants just like roll up to in their hundreds and thousands and want to party and have a great time and a great chat it's not the same. Um, there's not that community, there's not that energy behind it. So it was kind of fun to be able to bring some of that to that group of people. So we're obviously trying to build on that and do more there and do it with accounting firms too.

Speaker 5: 25:43

A lot of accounting firms support whether it be fractional CFO work or whatever it is they work with those people too. But I think it's maybe the nature of being. A lot of accountants in practice are business owners. You know, maybe they do get out, they network, they're trying to make their businesses better. When you're in a house finance role sometimes that's you know you're an employee, you're nine to five, you kind of go to work, you go home, you're not really out to go to side events and things like that, but to where you go home You're not really out to go to side events and things like that, but the good ones are out there and so you know it's a good job, good fun finding them. So yeah, anyway, I don't know, does that meet the criteria?

Speaker 1: 26:19

No, that's good, I love it. I love it, mate, appreciate it. Thank you for being first cover of the Rank.

Speaker 2: 26:25

Ali, you're up next me. Um, if you listen to the overwhelm podcast um, the one that we dropped just I bathed in that one mate, I bathed in it we bathed in it.

Speaker 2: 26:35

I actually got an enormous amount of feedback from that.

Speaker 2: 26:38

I think did you too, andrew? Anyway, um, leadership under pressure is a whole different game, um, and I've learned that, um, you don't have to be bulletproof, but you do need to be an anchor, so just being there, being present, and it's really where the team rises and where the systems and processes and the tech that you've put in place with the team members really rise. And so I guess that's been my key learning over this year In relation to tech. It has actually been more heavily lent into Chachibiti in projects and customising that to exactly what we need. So I've pretty much refined that now for all my marketing and socials and it's just a well-oiled machine. We actually overlaid it across in a redacted form, across tax planning as well, and helped just with verbiage and making it a bit more us and just leaning into a lot more of the AI stuff, and I've seen some pretty exciting stuff kind of come through in the bot type phase. So hopefully that will come out in the next few years to help us be a bit more efficient.

Speaker 1: 27:56

So, yeah, that's me in a nutshell mmm, nice, interesting, so you might like for me I got a slightly different tangent. There's there's probably a couple of things that have helped me over the last kind of 12 months that I've really valued, appreciating some of its probably a mindset and a couple of things that have helped me over the last kind of 12 months that I've really valued and appreciated. Some of it's probably a mindset and a perspective of things as well. The first thing is like particularly when if you think of like people who are in exactly the same roles theoretically or have the same kind of like experience or that kind of thing, but bring different values, like really taking the time to appreciate that how you get to an outcome sometimes is not as important as the outcome, provided that varies and stuff for it to adhere to. And so I've really learned and unpacked a lot of that over the year in terms of like, particularly at Illuminate, with some of our team who are theoretically might have the same job title but approach their craft in a slightly different manner and making sure that like we're not looking at each other going well, you're not, you're not doing the job, it's like well, actually we're all doing the job, we just have different nuances there differently. So I think really appreciating that element of diversity and how we kind of look after, cater and care for the work that we do, that's probably one thing. The second thing is just a little bit of phrase that I keep trying to remind myself is you don't have to justify it, you just have to explain it. This need to justify why things are happening. I found trying to remove away from that mentality has made conversations way easier with whether it's with clients, team members, peers, business partners, family, that stuff. I found that really, really helpful for me where I find I'm less defensive and I'm to simply to saying cool, this is how I got to that point.

Speaker 1: 29:33

And the last thing, which is probably more of a tangible thing, is pip decks. I don't know if you guys are aware of pip decks or I've talked about pip decks. Pip decks is kind of like chat, gpt, maybe. Before it's physical things, it's like a bunch of decks of cards that have themes around them. So one could be around like, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it up, the storyteller is one. So like, hey, if you want to be better at storytelling, here's like a, like a deck of cards which have certain themes around them that have ideas and things that can help to create the way you think and whatnot. Or here's a way that you could workshop something if you're trying to generate an idea with people.

Speaker 1: 30:09

I found them really, really helpful to to look through before I may be running a meeting or running a session or having a conversation to go okay, cool, how do I want to actually phrase this in a way that's fresh and engaging, impactful, so that it's not just the same old style thing. So pip-dex, pip decks fantastic. I've really appreciated them. I think there's like eight or nine different sets of them. I would highly recommend them. Based on my experience and the idea there is you can actually utilize within the Dex. There's maybe six, five or six different kind of type of cars that are in there. You can actually line them up in a row to create like a whole day experience and I think if you use code AVDB, you get 25% off, if only if only you, bloody, did.

Speaker 1: 30:53

No, there are no discounts involved. We are not sponsored by them. Piptex, if you're out there and you're listening to this, firstly, why the hell are you listening to us? But secondly, thank you for doing what you do. Send all your free stuff to me. I'll take it. I'll bloody take it. They are cool. How cool, though, amy, that means you're last mate. What's rocked your world over the last 12 months? What's made your life better?

Speaker 4: 31:11

um, I got a dog. She's amazing. She's totally rocked my life and my world. Anyway, moving on beyond the agapantha, um, something that actually has totally rocked my world is we started a new service just under about nine months ago, nine ten months ago and it's called project 95 and it is a coaching and support service for operational team members.

Speaker 4: 31:41

So every coaching service out there at the moment is very much typically for this industry, is typically geared towards business owners and accountants. Every event, business owners and accountants, monthly, ca, cpa discussion groups, business owners, accountants Everything in this industry is pretty much geared towards accountants and business owners, which is fine. But that leaves very little space for the glue of most practices, which is the operations team, and I'm talking from receptionist all the way up to practice manager and anyone in between. It can be a really lonely space. Being a practice manager in an accounting practice, you're usually a minority in the practice itself. You usually don't have the opportunity to go and meet other like-minded you know fellow operational practitioners, so to speak.

Speaker 4: 32:32

So we started a coaching service for them and we have three groups at the moment, looking to expand that very soon to another two groups over the course of the next 12 months and it's just been phenomenal seeing like it just fills up my cup. And Naomi, who is our project director, she also runs these meetings as well and it's just been the most rewarding experience to help and see these fellow like-minded operational team members thrive, have a place where they can be free, can speak about their challenges. In practice, they have to. They're being held accountable to their figures and their numbers. We have also on the tech side of this. We have partnered with Dashboard Insights so that they can really easily fill in a form and show their progress in terms of their figures, so that they can also be way more valuable and valued within practice, because I think there's sometimes, depending on the practice, I think, that that role can be a little bit obscure in terms of have they been empowered to be valuable or are they just kind of a doer, that kind of thing? So it's basically yeah, so that's really filled up my cup.

Speaker 1: 33:42

So what I'm hearing? Amy, in the last 12 months you have rocked your world. Oh nice.

Speaker 4: 33:48

No but yes, but no, but also using Fireflies, Frederick, freddie, fireflies, oh.

Speaker 1: 33:57

Freddie yep.

Speaker 4: 33:58

Yeah, I have a love-hate relationship with him. Sometimes he likes to attend meetings that I don't want him in, and sometimes he's not there in other times or he leaves early, but otherwise Frederick has also been a huge impact to our business, along with ChatGPT, like you, Ellie, in terms of the marketing side of things. Oh God, that's helped. Gosh, that has helped so good, no end. But yeah, Fireflies has also really helped. Just you know, meeting recaps and all that kind of stuff. It's been great.

Speaker 2: 34:24

So good isn't, it?

Speaker 4: 34:26

That's what's rocked my mind.

Speaker 2: 34:28

Brief in their AI product has got now a transcription tool, and it does so. I use Brief for my advisory and it now has a transcription tool and a prep AI agenda and it takes all of the rich data from all of the client check-ins, from everything that you've uploaded, from all of the meeting notes and gosh dang. It's brilliant. Yeah, it's just amazing. Yeah, just crazy good, crazy good. It lifts the advisory conversations. Yeah, I'd really like.

Speaker 4: 34:56

ChatGPT to learn how to not put hyphens into everything, though God, that annoys me, although it's the greatest giveaway. I'm like you didn't write that Chatty, did I mean on a?

Speaker 5: 35:05

slight side note I don't think I've wanted to look at my LinkedIn for the last month.

Speaker 2: 35:14

I just feel like I don't get me wrong, I was one. I am one of them.

Speaker 5: 35:16

I post on there on a semi-regular basis, but you feel like it's all chat gbt just getting to a point where I'm like it's just so easy to pull something up and write something with chat gbt that I'm like not real content if so, even if I write something thoughtful, people are going to think it's with chat gbt and then, if you don't, it is with chat gbt. I'm like I think at some point ai is going to kill

Speaker 5: 35:38

the social media feeds. It's going to kill them believer it's bringing the human the human, human, I agree because, like this is.

Speaker 4: 35:44

I'm with you on that like I.

Speaker 1: 35:45

I know that illuminate, we've, we were, you know cloud and tech and stuff way, way, way before the, the majority of people were, and then it kind of caught up. I'm finding way more going back to a lot of human stuff and all of a sudden the clients are so appreciative of it because it becomes more genuine and more connected, and so I think that is really starting to become a differentiator is like not overly relying on technology to be able to do everything for you.

Speaker 1: 36:11

So you're actually allowing to engage with people? I don't know.

Speaker 2: 36:18

I'm just finding that being really big lately. There was some research, I think, done recently around brain scans of people that use chat chibi tea. I saw that it's scary, yeah, it's dumbing us down, um. And the other thing is it's just filling the internet with just garbage, um, and so it's just literally like a garbage dump, but also think about all of the garbage that is being fed into it.

Speaker 4: 36:38

And that's what is the concern from my perspective. Still, it's always been my concern. I'm like garbage in, garbage out man.

Speaker 5: 36:45

I've been watching some deep stuff, some scary stuff recently. Like I'm, definitely moving towards the train of like this doesn't end well? I don't think.

Speaker 6: 36:57

But I hope that it.

Speaker 5: 36:58

I hope that it like doesn't end that badly. I just, I just I'm like I don't see it as solely positive anymore. Now I definitely see that it's going to have another side, cause if every single person has the equivalent of the smartest human ever in their pocket, like they, they, they, they now know, every knowledge is now effectively a commodity which you know the lawyer, the accountant, the expert is it though is, let that that element is changed um you know, if I want to don't get me wrong.

Speaker 5: 37:27

Right now it's not. It's not. It's not perfect, but you can see how it's getting there, it's going that way yeah, and then suddenly your whole white-collar knowledge worker job. Like the whole thing changes, I think. Like, if I'm needing to hire a support assistant, the first thing I'm going to try is can Intercom's fin AI do the job well enough?

Speaker 6: 37:48

Like it's already doing it.

Speaker 5: 37:50

Like it's great.

Speaker 1: 37:51

Anyway, sorry, this is another 45-minute episode Before you kind of go off track and go there we start talking about doomsday and in 12 months' time we might not even be here to be able to kind of talk about the next financial year. I might corral the four of us and work us towards a joyful ending of this conversation, Obviously, it's been another 12 months of attacks here.

Speaker 1: 38:15

We've gone through many a conversation with supported clients, we've helped build cool tech and we've helped operations team and accounting firms do really cool shit, and I think it's always fun to reflect on what we've done and where we've been, as well as the state we're in and what it might look like going forward. Amy, you did share beforehand that you've already had your financial year party. I was going to do a quick round robin and what are we up to? Ali? What's the end of financial year celebration look like for you and your team this year?

Speaker 2: 38:49

Well, we've got a couple back from maternity leave, which is wonderful, so we're celebrating 1 July for a very nice lunch.

Speaker 1: 38:54

Oh, on the actual day. I like that Pick the actual day Very good.

Speaker 2: 38:59

So, yeah, we're just going to have a really beautiful lunch and enjoy it to others' company, and that's one of my fave things to do Nice Amy, what did you do?

Speaker 4: 39:10

Well, we had two days of strategy. We have clarity, which is great, and then we went out for beverages a very long dinner.

Speaker 1: 39:19

I noticed that I wasn't invited this year.

Speaker 4: 39:20

I'm pretty sure I went last year, but that's okay yeah yeah, a little bit we weren't down your way, we were in the CBD A little bit boozy. It did get boozy, and then we ended up at a cocktail bar. So yakimono and then oda v um oh we started nick and nora's, though we're in that precinct.

Speaker 1: 39:38

Yeah, it was lots of fun jack um for your 47th uh, end of financial year, end of four, end of month party. That you guys are you selling like because you've got a. You've got another human in australia.

Speaker 5: 39:47

That's within no, no, we don't. But we, we will soon enough, um, but it is right, solely just me right now.

Speaker 1: 39:55

So you're going to put a party hat on and have a thing in this? Yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 5: 40:00

No, my good friends and accountants, amy and Liam at Project Alfred, have lent me probably way too long. I probably owe them a lot of money for having a desk with them over the past I don't know six, 12 months, and so I'm kind of part of their team a little bit. Thursdays and Fridays I'm in town with them. So Friday the 4th we will be going out to lunch together and I will get to celebrate end of financial year with a group of accountants the way you should celebrate end of financial year.

Speaker 1: 40:32

That's great. Well, team Illuminateate, we're doing friday the fourth, but we're going to be doing an evening afternoon evening thing. We're bringing back something we haven't done for a while, which is what we were I refer to as our op shop uh, fancy dress, dress up competition. So everyone gets 30 given to them. At 3 pm they have to go to an op shop to buy their entire outfit for the night, uh, and then we're heading to one of our clients, uh, who runs a hospitality venture, and and another one of the clients who's catering. They're gonna run and cater the night and we're gonna have some of our kind of broader community, some referral partners it's couple charity partners that a couple of clients come along and they're gonna share a bit of their stories over the last 12 months, as we kind of have a bit of fun and eat some food and do some crazy shit and then eventually find a way to home.

Speaker 1: 41:12

But we also do this thing called the Golden Globes, which I think I've spoken about before is every year we hand out these silly awards which mean nothing but everything at the same time, but then that what the wards are nominated internally from the team.

Speaker 1: 41:25

So it's effectively pick a person and what do you think they should receive a medal for? And so we've got some awards are gonna go out this year again, which will be interesting to see. So I think we were firming up what they actually are today, which is great. And then we'll also have like medal awards for the op shop night, because we do a brown low vote when we do this and so there's rounds and everyone gets votes and we had it in and the winner gets announced and for those who can't physically attend, they are also welcome to participate and they have like the the remote award kind of thing as well.

Speaker 1: 41:54

So we're gonna do that, which will be fun, would go a little bit crazy, a little bit extravagant, which is just a nice way to spend time with our team is. I've worked hard and the next year ahead is gonna be good. But I think what was important for us is to bring some of the people that we've worked with or impact, being impacted by or have impacted, and get them to share some of their stories too. So we're going to do that next week Friday and then after that back to business, and then we start cracking the whip and say work faster and harder and get shit done.

Speaker 5: 42:21

Remember that lunch we got you last week.

Speaker 1: 42:23

Yeah, come on.

Speaker 5: 42:24

We did that thing, that one time.

Speaker 1: 42:26

We're great.

Speaker 5: 42:27

Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1: 42:28

But anyway, we're almost at the end of 2025. If you are listening, if you're sitting there, and whether you've had a good year, a not so good year or somewhere in between year, know that you got through to the end of it and you did probably a whole bunch of bloody good stuff, and so either someone should be patting you on your back and patting yourself, but feel a virtual pat from the four of us to say, hey, well done, we think you're amazing, keep it up and bring on the next year.

Speaker 2: 42:53

And to the three of you, thank you, thanks for hanging out, thanks, ellie, for putting up with my shit and my overwhelm and all the stuff that I don't do and thank you to the children for doing their things.

Speaker 4: 43:04

Thanks my dad.

Speaker 1: 43:05

And being amazing there as well. Although Jack never rocks up to family gatherings. He's always away.

Speaker 5: 43:10

Oh, he's always away, never around.

Speaker 2: 43:15

Always brings, he's always away. Oh, he's never around. Always away, always away. Maybe I don't exist. Always the problem child, the rebellious one.

Speaker 5: 43:18

Anyway, all right, everyone love you guys, see ya wasn't that a fun adventure, my friends.

Speaker 6: 43:33

Thank you so much, so incredibly much, for hanging out with us today. Ellie, you've been amazing. Andrew, you've been all right. How good is it to be able to have adventures together it so is, and you know what.

Speaker 2: 43:45

Keep following us. We are all over the socials at accounting adventures. Check us out on the website. Give us a bit of a like. You know how much we love that.

Speaker 6: 43:54

The people that we do it with. So thank you so much for listening, thank you so much for hanging out with us, and please bring all the ideas, keep them coming. We can't wait to share more cool adventures with you.