Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey, ellie. Yes, andrew. I told Ivana, my wife, the other day that she should embrace her mistakes.

Speaker 2: 0:08

Okay, I'm sure she doesn't make very many. She's pretty perfect.

Speaker 1: 0:12

She gave me a really big hug.

Speaker 2: 0:21

That's clever, alright, it wasn't too bad.

Speaker 1: 0:25

Actually, I thought that I was struggling to find a joke to start today and I reckon that's not too bad. I don't think that she would actually do that, but yeah, what do you think Was that?

Speaker 2: 0:36

all right. Was that all right? Did that pass the sniff test? For you, it passes the sniff test, and the joke is always related to what we're going to talk about. Well, in some way, shape or form, it is. How is that related?

Speaker 1: 0:49

Well, draw the line. I was going to say it's funny because we've only released one kind of conversation so far this year and we've struggled to gather together to talk and to put some thoughts into words and recordings lately and I think there's just been a bit of overwhelm that we've both experienced. We've both had either a lot of things happening all at once or a heavy thing that controls and takes focus away, and so I wanted to talk about go very off topic of what we said. This thing was being let's talk about overwhelm. We never go off topic of what we said. This thing was being talked about overwhelm.

Speaker 1: 1:24

Talk about like we never go off topic probably firstly like just to check in with you and check in with me around that um talk, a bit of real talk around what's happening in our lives, but also probably just to talk and share about the talk of overwhelm and like when we um, when and when we do too much or we maybe make mistakes, hence the joke that we have to pay for later in terms of that, just heaviness of things. Yeah, it sounds like it's going to be a deep one, but I'm ready.

Speaker 2: 1:55

I'm going to get the psychologist's couch out and I'm feeling like we're going to do a little bit of reflection and self-care.

Speaker 1: 2:00

We haven't gone into the deep mode for a while so I'm nervous about where this might go.

Speaker 2: 2:04

Never be nervous, I'll nurture you, don't worry.

Speaker 1: 2:07

I'm going to kick back and we'll hit the theme tune and we'll come back in a second. We'll see where we go. Let's do that.

Speaker 2: 2:24

So Ali, how are you? Loaded question oh look, it is such a loaded question and I'm actually the type of person to give a really honest reply and it shocks a lot of people. Do you ever do that give an honest reply and they don't expect it um, yeah, I'm normally, I like, yeah, I'll tell you.

Speaker 1: 2:45

I'll tell you, yeah, yeah, I'll be, pretty honest.

Speaker 1: 2:48

You usually have that weird like oh, you know, things are good, these are all the things, though, that are happening, or this is the thing, and so you sometimes, initially, your initial response is that, like blase, australian, you know things are good, you know busy. And then I will always probably follow up with a. I try to find a, a diplomatic or more positive way to to say something that might be construed as negative, to try and not make it negative, but like it's, you know it's good, busy though yeah, and you know what my honest answer is and I say this to people and it shocks them is that I'm not okay.

Speaker 2: 3:23

I've had some very life-changing, deep, overwhelming things happen that I'm living in and I'm processing and trying to carry that load is a lot, and I think that that's. The reality is that if you're not okay, you've at least got to acknowledge it. You can't hide from it. But it allows people to engage with you and to look after you and to nurture you and to care for you.

Speaker 2: 4:05

And I'm not so naive as to believe I'm not the only person going through struggles or pain or overwhelm, and so maybe we can talk through this a bit later on around some of the coping strategies that we can have with each other, and I'd have to say look, I'm getting even emotional just talking about it, but one of the most beautiful things that you did for me, Andrew, was that you took some time out and you came and visited me just to spend time, and I was so grateful for that because, just as a friend, you know, to acknowledge that, even though you can't take away someone's pain, but you can stand with them through it.

Speaker 2: 4:41

That's enough. And so, yeah, things have been pretty full-on, um, but you know, there is still the good things, there is still the hope, but it has been incredibly overwhelming. But it's the weight of the things that you carry yeah, I think you've had.

Speaker 1: 5:01

You've had some. I mean, you work out a lot and physical workout is great, which also impacts mental workout. Yes, the weight of what you've been carrying is the heaviest thing you'll ever probably experience, and it's not necessarily something that any human is capable of carrying no, at least alone, or should be.

Speaker 2: 5:23

I don't think we should, but we have to, and wonderful for me is that I'm very good at compartmentalising. So life does go on and I am actually an incredibly resilient person. So even though there's overwhelm and heaviness. I'm still okay in the sense that I'm not depressed or anxious or any of those things. It's just more a heavy weight to carry, that's all.

Speaker 1: 5:53

And when I did come and visit, we didn't find that bloody bread. This is a joke between Ali.

Speaker 2: 6:00

There's a place in Rattalate called Fugazi which has this amazing bread.

Speaker 1: 6:05

So we rock up. I was like I booked it for dinner. She's been talking about it. You've been talking about Fugazi for like a long time as well Like, oh, we'll go here. We haven't. And then she's booked it. We walk in Yep got a booking for blah blah and they're like, oh, I don't see you on here. And it turns out that she booked it for the next month.

Speaker 2: 6:23

Which is so totally me right now. Right now, it was funny.

Speaker 1: 6:35

It's that whole element of like, with such a big thing that you're focusing your energy on things that are as simple as like booking, reservation booking. You can muck it up, and so we still had good bread, and the next day we had okayish bread and whatnot.

Speaker 2: 6:46

There was a focus on bread, though, wasn't there Through Adelaide.

Speaker 1: 6:50

So if you're in Adelaide or Melbourne, where I'm at, and you have recommendations on like good, like, go here for some. Like the bread is amazing, like you know, like the big focaccia with, like the butter and whatever. It is like we could start bread tours of radelaide and melbourne I, I mean, I, I'm just yeah, I'm looking forward to having that bread next time.

Speaker 2: 7:14

Oh, a hundred percent, a hundred percent, and look. Hopefully you'll be in radelaide sometime soon. But I need to ask the question of you, andrew how are you?

Speaker 1: 7:22

yeah, I, yeah. I'm probably in a similarly different environment to you in terms of overwhelm, in terms of that space. Am I okay? I'd like to think that I'm okay, but at the same time, I might not also be okay, and that's not a matter of like.

Speaker 1: 7:49

Also be okay and that's not a matter of like, um, deflecting or downplaying or trying to hide from reality um, I just have a lot on my plate, yes, and a lot of that is, you know, self-inflicted, self-decided, and I think we've talked about you know getting good at saying no, and we've talked about decisions that I've made in my life to try and be more present with my family and to try, and you know, step away and do certain things and, um, I thought that it would look different right so the reality is very different oh, I, you know you're like I don't know, like I'm.

Speaker 1: 8:21

I'm always, uh, I'm looking at what it's going to look like in five years time, not in five months time. Yes, um, as well, like I'm always looking at what it's going to look like in five years' time, not in five months' time.

Speaker 1: 8:26

Yes, as well, as I'm always looking at like how things could work well and probably not spending enough time on reality of what not well might actually look like. So you're at least either prepared for it or you might make a different type of decision because of that. And so I look at the handful of businesses that I'm running and the way they're being run and the people and everything we do, and I look at that with rose-coloured glasses and I look at that with in five years' time, once these things are sorted and whatnot. You know that super blindfolded entrepreneur kind of mindset, and I'm constantly looking at that. And then the reality of the now gets in the way.

Speaker 1: 9:08

Yeah, and that now of like, uh, what you thought it would look like was not so. The people you thought were going to be around are not there. Um, this is in other businesses, not in illuminate, but not there. And and and when you kind of juggle like a retail business versus a professional services business, when someone's sick, you're the one that steps in because we don't have a big team, and so that has been immensely challenging to be able to be so the physical presence we need to be able to be present in, so, when you're, when I at Illuminate, to be the person that I need to be at Illuminate, when I'm at Plum, that I'm the person that I'm there.

Speaker 1: 9:49

when I'm at home, I'm a husband and I'm a father, like those most important things, and that overwhelm has been, unfortunately, like probably for the last seven to eight months, just nonstop.

Speaker 1: 10:03

Yeah, that's a lot of weight to carry it is and it's, I think it's like. So it's different to you in that, like I have a lot of things, um, and some of those things are complex, but I wouldn't necessarily say they're heavy is maybe the way, like in terms of the weight that you're experiencing I just have a lot of things that are lighter, that add up to be that weight, and so what I have found, and what I struggle with, is the ability to make a decision.

Speaker 1: 10:36

I get decision-making overwhelms, like I have to make 12 decisions right now.

Speaker 1: 10:39

Yeah, decision-making paralysis and I know they're going to impact a whole bunch of different people and I don't know if I'm thinking clearly or I need to get perspective from other people, but they might not be in a position to be able to give the perspective and I have to make that decision and the weight of that decision and the impact that that has, because that has some significant financial ramifications. Thus, then, for my family and others out there, in terms of what we do or don't do, and that is really really hard and I I like to pride myself on being able to operate under pressure and stress and I reckon I'm pretty good at it, but it's but you're in the marathon, not the sprint, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 11:21

Like you can sprint sometimes with that amount of weight, but can you marathon with that amount of weight, which is the marathon? You know, five years is a marathon, right, not a sprint.

Speaker 1: 11:34

Yeah, and I think it's also meant that, like I haven't been able to make decisions in the timeframe that I needed to, which means by the time the next thing pops up, I am yet to resolve the prior thing.

Speaker 1: 11:44

So, instead of being working on two or three things at a point in time, you've now got six, seven, eight, nine, 10 things, and it all becomes one big thing, which is actually a multitude of little things.

Speaker 1: 11:54

Yeah, and so, yeah, that's that has been really hard, because I've I've noticed that I I have really struggled to turn my mind to be home, when I know, when I'm at home, to engage with my kids and and my family when I'm home, as opposed to I have to tell the story of, like you know, a long time ago I get home and I just stare at the wall and I just think about nothing, and so I'm not necessarily doing that now, but I'm I'm thinking too much about everything else because I don't have time to stop thinking.

Speaker 1: 12:31

And if I stop thinking and stop actioning, then all of a sudden, the fear of, uh, what will happen because of that, and and and I'm not sitting here with saying that that's not like a oh, you think it's more important than it is it's like the reality is, if those things are not happening right now or soon that need to happen, then that will create a greater and greater consequence because of and so you start to doubt yourself and you start to doubt your ability to make good decisions. You start to doubt your ability to make good decisions, um, you start to doubt your ability to do that, and you also become, uh, less flexible with people less like rigid thinking comes in, or yeah, you become a lot more rigid.

Speaker 1: 13:12

You become a lot more direct in your approach with certain stuff as opposed to collaborative of things. You probably get grumpier when people aren't giving you what you need when you need it. But that's not necessarily on them. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's not on them, for that you know.

Speaker 2: 13:30

Do you feel let down by people because you expected more?

Speaker 1: 13:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:35

When you need it Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 13:37

And I think there's a reality of like you don't. You don't want to share the depths of what you're working through and the overwhelm you're going through, because that is your burden, that, and for me, that's my burden, that I've decided to carry. But at the same time, you need to make sure you're still sharing elements of that so people are mindful of, like, what you're working through, where you're going, so you're not asking them to take it away from you, but you're letting them be be aware of what it is that you're working through, so that they, um, at least have an understanding of your availability or your headspace or your mental state at any point in time. Yeah, and then, um, they can choose how they engage and how they act within that space. Do they recognize and say, okay, cool, we need to give him some space? Do they recognize and say, oh, okay, cool, we maybe need to step in and get more involved, or we'd take stuff off his desk, that kind of stuff?

Speaker 2: 14:31

And I guess that's that kind of state where I find is, I'm not particularly good at asking for things, but I can be good at complaining about things not being done the way I wanted them to be, but I didn't actually ask about it yeah and I think you know you overlaid this and we have touched on this briefly before as part of the Andrew farewell that as a business owner, you have a lot of weight on your shoulders and people expect a lot from you, and when the I wouldn't say weaknesses, but when the challenges come in and you need support from everybody around you, there's a different layer, I think, than just employee to employee or owner to owner, where there are elements of bitterness that can creep in if you're going through something and having to step out and people are then having to take on jobs for a short period of time, or to take on more of the burden or more of the stress, and they're happy to do it initially, but then, after time, it becomes overwhelming, and then the bitterness creeps in, and then you've got to deal with that, and so it's just this ever-evolving cycle, because you're the business owner and because people expect more of you

Speaker 2: 15:43

which is totally understandable and you can see it from their point of view but sometimes some of these things are out of our control or we have made decisions and it's going to take a little bit longer for us to either correct the path that we're working towards or for that problem to resolve itself, and I guess that's what I find as well.

Speaker 2: 16:02

I have an amazing team who have stepped up, but we've also had some things with maternity leave and sickness and all these other bits and pieces, and so it's just this perfect storm and you're trying to look after yourself and keep afloat, plus trying to look after your team, and they're trying to do the same, but then you know, you start to miscommunicate and disconnect and that's when the bitterness starts creeping and then you've got to do all this healing journey again and it's, it's just, it's the last thing you need, but it's what you have to do.

Speaker 1: 16:31

It's hard as well, because I think when you are that leader, um, there's an expectation that you're the one that's going to be initiating all of that.

Speaker 1: 16:41

Yes, and fixing it or seeing it, and every now and then you might have a team or you know kind of peers that will initiate some of that for you, whether that's them recognising a conversation that needs to happen or whether that's something else you know, hey, I need to talk to you about something that you did. Or hey, I need to talk to you about something that you did. Or hey, I need to talk about something that I did, whatever that looks like. But more often than not, there's an expectation of that leader that is creating that environment, and that's where you and I sit is that we are the ones who the expectation is on, and when you're on fire.

Speaker 1: 17:16

And there's some challenging stuff that sits there, because as soon as you you have to like pass some of those heavy things and other people pick that up, um yeah you still don't, it's not like I go. Great, I just don't have to think about that anymore no, no so you just think about it differently you do, and that can be good or not good and this is a thing like I'm speaking such cryptic words right now.

Speaker 2: 17:42

I just it's not at all.

Speaker 1: 17:42

I completely get you and I'm normally pretty good to explain things, but it's very difficult for me to actually articulate like what, what it is that I feel in terms of the overwhelm and how I go, how I'm, how I'm managing it right now, and I'm very conscious of recognizing that. I think sometimes, when you're going through a state of overwhelm, you can have exceptionally unfair expectations of other people around you because they don't know what I'm going through and they're not dealing with this kind of thing. You have to be really, really careful of pushing an unfair assumption on someone when you're going through a lot but at the same time, good people around you identify that and do something about that.

Speaker 2: 18:24

Yeah, and you know as a business owner, you know in everybody, in everybody's lives, they have ups and downs and in the ups it's super like, it's wonderful right, like you're on five teams with you, it's easy to manage, right, like you're on five teams with you, it's easy to manage um.

Speaker 2: 18:42

But when you're in the depths, um, that's really when you get to see the true character of somebody, is it not? And the true character of your team, and it can change your opinions on things, or you can change as a person, and so the business and you personally need to ebb and flow in that, and I can hear I, I hear what you're saying. You're so conscious of how you're treating others and taking on a lot of that burden, which is also a weight for you to carry, but who's looking after you? Hmm?

Speaker 1: 19:19

it's a great question and I don't have an answer to that other than you try to do the best for yourself and I think those like your family, those who are like directly, directly, they recognize that and they do what they can. I mean, when you've got a, an eight year old and an 11 year old, they don't. They don't quite understand economy and that stuff.

Speaker 2: 19:38

No, they're very in their selfish space.

Speaker 1: 19:40

They'll still give you a hug and check in.

Speaker 2: 19:43

Yeah, and it's okay, Andrew, because what you're doing is okay.

Speaker 3: 19:49

You're doing an amazing job and, like your children, although you may feel like you're not giving them everything that they need you are because you're there and you care and you love them and you support them Right.

Speaker 1: 20:05

Yeah, it's funny because if you like, if you and this is the world we live in, I think, as accountants and advisors like if you put out a P&L, you wouldn't see what I'm going through. Because a P&L would be like fuck yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:19

Yeah, doing great Successful P&L would be like hey, that looks great.

Speaker 1: 20:22

Hey, it looks like things are going really well, like, oh, I can see some strong improvements there. Or like I can see that's a really healthy thing that you've built, that you're building, that's going on there.

Speaker 2: 20:33

And this is the danger.

Speaker 1: 20:34

It's like the iceberg and all that. You know the burden, you know the feet underneath and that's that Like, I think that's a.

Speaker 2: 20:42

I parallel this with social media. It's a highlight reel, but behind that is the person and what they're going through and what they're doing, and so what a perfect example of this is the P&L right.

Speaker 1: 20:54

This is like the Because, unless you actually knew us from it's the P, from all of the business and it, you know we've got um, we do great stuff for our clients. We do. We're we're working with more and more people. We're continuing to get exceptionally good feedback. We've got good people doing good stuff. Um, but then, like I said, that decision space, like a lot of the decisions that I'm having to make, are not ones that I I either want to make as in I don't think it's something we should be. I don't feel like it's something we should have been having to deal with right now. I'm having to make it in the way that I wouldn't like to make it, in the way of like it's a decision that's being forced on me to make it in a certain time period, in a certain way, as opposed to allowing it to happen differently yeah and that's, I think, where a lot of that overwhelm comes from, because, um, there's so much loss of control in those variables, in those

Speaker 1: 21:47

environments.

Speaker 1: 21:48

Yeah, having 12 things on your desk is a lot easier to manage, but when you can't, and when other things around that people or environment, whatever are pushing for that thing to happen and looking at you to make that happen, even though it's not necessarily benefiting you or the environment that you're within, the business or the family, it's really hard to then go cool.

Speaker 1: 22:13

I'm just going to add that to my list of things that I now have to go and do for you. Yeah, as opposed to collaborate with you, come bring me some ideas. Let's talk like I talk about it with my business part of the shop who's, I think I've shared on here Dan, who's a great mate of mine, but he's he's moved home to the UK permanently, and so this is one of the things you just don't anticipate, like he would never anticipate. So, um, the two of us are going into business and and all of a sudden, he's not physically here, which is all well and good when you do something that doesn't require a physical presence, but we run a retail store, and so, um, there's that and so we talk about that as where you know we're hiring and trying to find the right fit for our team.

Speaker 1: 22:54

Um, good is where someone can identify something that's not working well, whether it's an opportunity or whether it's something that's not going well. Right is when they can come and bring some ideas and some examples of how that might look like and then wanting to be engaged to actually implement that. Um, I'm I'm really struggling to find great lately. Yeah, and I don't know if that's an environment that I've created or if that's the general state of some people in my world or in the world, or if there's an expectation of that as well. Like, I know that decision needs to be made, but your role, responsibility and position suggests that you need to be engaging in this. You cannot push that on me.

Speaker 1: 23:41

That is unfair. It is unfair of you to do that. I'm not saying I don't want to be a part of it. I'm not saying you have to solve it all, but I'm saying we have to do that together. And if you're just saying you go tell me what to do, that's just. That's unfair of you to do so and I don't think I'm in a position to do that well, because I'll probably be a dick when I do it, if I have to do it that way, because I'm going to do it in spite as opposed to with joy.

Speaker 2: 24:02

Yeah, and so is that around the boundary setting and making clear what your boundaries are and communicating through that, but then some people just don't step up and then you're stuck.

Speaker 1: 24:12

It's kind of that. It's kind of roles and responsibilities. It's kind of like this is what other people want or what they want to do, and it's it's, it's. It's kind of roles and responsibilities. It's kind of like this is what other people want or what they want to do, and it's it's, it's, it's hard because it's, it's, it's.

Speaker 1: 24:20

It is like it's heavier stuff, not your heaviest, not your weight of stuff, but it's heavier stuff. And it's like great, that decision absolutely has to be made. And if that person decides to go about that way, the person who will feel that the most will be me and my family. So there's almost that level of assumption like cool, well, you're the one that's most, that's at risk most here, so you, you tell us, you tell me what to do. Yeah, wow, because you're the one that's going to feel it more than me and I and I'd like to think that's not what the actual thought process going through these people's minds might be, if that's the situation, but that's what it feels like when you're, when you're overwhelmed when you have too much already on and someone puts on your desk and you go.

Speaker 1: 24:59

Could you just fucking think about it for a second before you give it to me? Could you initiate a conversation? Could you come with some ideas? Could you walk me through how you think this could be great, instead of just going and vomiting and like other you know?

Speaker 1: 25:13

running shit on the desk and run off again and just leave you to clean it up. It's like, just do that, because then that's where I feel like and maybe we'll, we can move to the whole like coping or how do we get out of this space? Like, if people can, are starting to collaborate with us there. That's where I feel like I can start to work my way out of that space, because I there's a lot of personal responsibility, I think when you find yourself in a state of overwhelm, particularly if you're the person who's created it, but at the same time, the best way to get out of that is with others.

Speaker 2: 25:47

Absolutely, and this is where building your tribe right, and that does come back to the coping strategies. Now we do need to go to a break to hear from our amazing sponsors, andrew.

Speaker 1: 25:59

These are our others. And, honestly, some of these people and some of this community that sponsor us and collaborate with us in here are people that we would, I would say, are people that we would go to and have conversations every now and then, at this kind of depth, and it's great that we have a community and a group of people around us like that too. I'm stoked that we have people that sponsor these conversations, who will also have these conversations with us too.

Speaker 1: 26:24

Yeah, absolutely so, let's go and hear from them, because they're pretty bloody good. They sure are.

Speaker 3: 26:30

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Speaker 2: 26:36

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Speaker 3: 26:38

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Speaker 2: 26:40

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Speaker 3: 26:42

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Speaker 2: 26:43

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Speaker 1: 26:47

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Speaker 2: 27:18

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Speaker 1: 27:20

It's so good. It means that there's a bunch of stuff within your firm you need to do, and you only have to go to one place to be able to do that, which is fantastic.

Speaker 3: 27:26

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Speaker 2: 27:30

Absolutely EGL.

Speaker 1: 27:37

So coping, how do we cope, and then how do we support? So let's just go the two fronts. So the coping. I guess that's focusing on what do you, Ali, and what do I, Andrew, do as an individual? And then how can others support? It's probably more a matter of our knowledge of what can people around be doing? Who might be identifying people who are going through a state of overwhelm? Ali, what are you doing right now to cope? You used to use the phrase compartmentalise and the like, and I feel like I'm the same. I won't respond to you for like a few weeks but that's totally okay to start that conversation, so I'm just going to deal with it later and and the.

Speaker 2: 28:15

The other side of that is I understand that it's okay yeah, no pressure from me um, and look, I, I'm literally in survival mode at this point in time. So I and what I do in survival mode is I just scale everything back. I can't plan ahead. I can't plan a month, a week, a day. Sometimes it's literally minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day, and that's where I need a lot of people around me to support me in that next step. And so I just scale everything back so it feels manageable. So bite-sized chunks how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time Fake it to make it.

Speaker 2: 28:55

That doesn't sound healthy and it most probably isn't. But right now that's. All I can do is fake it to make it. And that's where that compartmentalisation comes Like. Right now I'm focusing. I'm at work, I'm focusing at work. Right now I'm at home, I'm focusing on work. I can't think outside of that. The other thing which I've always done is my exercise. So I still exercise every single day. It's the one thing that's kind of getting me through mentally and physically. Eating healthy, still eating healthy. Eating healthy, still eating healthy.

Speaker 2: 29:33

Um, and I'm doing a lot of education in the particular um space that I'm at. So I'm educating myself on um, how I might be able to make things better, how I can make things better for my family team, etc. So I'm doing a lot of, I guess, r&d and education, informing myself. But I'm also seeking out medical support in various fields to support all of that and trying as best I can to communicate, which I have and I will openly admit to failing at in the depths of my despair, and I'm trying to really focus back on that so that I can get the support I need from everybody around me. So, and um, you know these two things that I've always tried to do is being kind to myself, but finding a moment of joy in every single day. And I still find that moment of joy in every single day what?

Speaker 1: 30:30

What was your moment of joy yesterday?

Speaker 2: 30:32

My little one was playing on the playground and she kind of was new playground at school and she was climbing right up to the top and she was so proud of herself and she looked at me with just this moment of pride that she'd done it and it just registered for me that she was really proud of herself and it was a moment for her that she was really proud of herself and it was a moment for her. That was my moment of joy.

Speaker 2: 30:55

Yeah, that's cool it just has to be the most small thing, and that's, that's enough. That's enough to get me through. What about you, andrew?

Speaker 1: 31:04

as in what was my moment of joy. What do I do to cope?

Speaker 2: 31:07

what do you do to cope?

Speaker 1: 31:09

yeah, um, I'm probably not as structured as you in in planning how to go about those things. Yeah, and so I have a few things in my world that I try to ensure that I do consistently. One of them is not getting up in the morning and exercising, but I do, somewhat consistently play golf every Monday morning.

Speaker 1: 31:37

It's my never have a Monday approach. I hit some golf balls and I have for some time and it's just a way of walking around after little white balls rather than worrying about things and people and stuff and it's great. I need to get much better at not looking at, or at least putting my phone to do not disturb, so messages don't come through. Yeah, you know. For example, I was playing around a golf yesterday. It was, I think, one degree when we teed off and there was ice all over the place. It was cold and, um, about halfway to two thirds of the way through the round I I saw a message popped up and read it. It wasn't, it wasn't bad, but it wasn't good.

Speaker 1: 32:11

Yeah, um, and it just meant that my head went straight yeah, you've gone, found the ability to remove it, and there it was straight away um, and then for the next hour and a half whilst I'm doing this usually helps to create some good head space and just something different.

Speaker 1: 32:27

Um, it wasn't, I was just thinking the whole way through and and so there's definitely that, like I think, creating those things and those moments and stuff that are around there, I think, as well as to some extent, of coping, like for me, like the family stuff is so important, but it's also the part that pays the price first, which sucks, because it's always family's, always like oh, oh, they'll always understand because, like, I'm working hard to provide for this family, like if I, if, if you know I don't do this, then we will be impacted, or if I do this, then we'll have a positive, so it's it's always the one that impacts it, um, first and the heaviest, but I think it's also looking at those things that you've, that you've committed to within that environment and and doing that on a consistent basis. Um, I try to, I try. It's something we used to do a lot with the kids a while ago and we haven't done it for a while and I've tried to start bringing it back again. And the older the kids get, the harder it was to kind of get it out of them. And and my kids are awesome, but also my kids, which means they're rat bags as well, you know, in a healthy way, um, but it's like you know what?

Speaker 1: 33:27

What were you grateful for today? Much like, what was your moment of joy? Like what was something you were grateful for? Like I'd always try what's something new you learned. What made you laugh today? What were you grateful for? But the big one was always like, what are you grateful for? And you know you'd always get the standard response of like, oh, I'm grateful that mum cooked this food, or you know, you know that kind of stuff. And I think trying to bring an element of that, like that gratitude, back there because I think that's a thing when you're in overwhelm, you don't, you don't recognize the things that are actually good around you, yeah, um, and and when you are completely uh, uh, surrounding yourself with a bunch of stuff that is not good, because that's all you're thinking about, all challenges or decisions you have to make.

Speaker 1: 34:05

you are forgetting that things are actually good. And that's kind of where I said to some extent, if you look at the P&L, at Illuminate and shopping all those things, you know things are good, numbers are good and I have to remind myself things are good. There's just a lot on right now.

Speaker 2: 34:20

Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1: 34:21

It's a reminder that this, ideally and more than likely, is temporary.

Speaker 2: 34:27

Yes.

Speaker 1: 34:28

It's not a forever thing. Yes, completely, you have to be smart to make the decisions you make, but you have to make them knowing what outcome you're trying to achieve, not just simply making them. So I think for me there's that element of that reminder of like what I'm grateful for, a reminder of the reality that I'm in is only temporary, and then finding the space to do those things that do bring that balance, that joy or that different thought process.

Speaker 2: 34:52

Yeah, and I think so, so true, so many things in there really resonated with me, like the short-term pain, long-term gain, the ability to focus on what you have and to realise that it is a moment in time and it too will pass. And that truly is the case. And what I find out of all trauma or tragedy or overwhelm or bad things is that you have that choice. You know you still have a choice of how you respond.

Speaker 2: 35:19

In that, moment and so I think it's super important to understand that you still have some level of control and power in that and you can choose how to respond, and that there is still so much good. And you've got to start to focus on that, because obviously we can start to think of the negative and we shouldn't do that to ourselves and there's so much still.

Speaker 2: 35:41

And I look back at a lot of those moments in my life and they were like stick-in-the-sand moments where I was more resilient and stronger than I ever thought I could be, and it refines you. It's like the diamond it refines you into being something more beautiful or special, with a new skill. But you will get through it. But you do have to protect those things that are most important to you, and that is family.

Speaker 1: 36:03

Yeah, now, ellie, we're going to finish up in a second. Thank you, this has been, I mean.

Speaker 1: 36:09

I feel like I'd probably hang here and talk for another four hours about you know life and what it's throwing me up and unpacking more thoughts, but we do need to wrap this up. Um, uh, give me a one tip. If you're, if you're talking to someone who is seeing someone who might be going through overwhelm or might believe that someone's kind of experienced that, whether they're expressing it or not, whether they're saying they are or they are not overwhelmed, what's something that you would suggest someone could do to assist that person or that environment around them?

Speaker 2: 36:39

what somebody can do to assist that person is to actually ask the question are you okay? And to be prepared for the answer and just to listen sometimes you don't need to give advice. Sometimes you don't need to give the answer. Sometimes you don't need to give the answer. Sometimes you're just there to listen and to support and if there is something that you can do, ask is there anything I can do? And they'll usually tell you. That's how I receive the most support. How about you?

Speaker 1: 37:04

Yeah, I think it's good because I think our overwhelm is so, so, so different what we're both going through, and because I think our overwhelm is so, so, so different, what we're both going through and I think that for you is so bang on. It's that like, just listen and be there and, you know, take time. Like we said, we just hang out and be together.

Speaker 1: 37:19

For me, I don't need to hang out, I mean, but I also to some extent is don't forget that I exist. That's something that I shared with my leadership team at Lumen and that's something that I shared with my leadership team at Illuminate. It's like, hey, I've got a lot on right now, and so what that means more often than not I literally have to sit behind a computer screen and fucking get it done every day that I'm here because I'm not an Illuminate every day. And so please don't forget that I exist, please don't forget that I'm not here. Like, if you're going to go and do something socially, like, let me know, let me be a part of that, because if not, then I feel more and more disconnected from that.

Speaker 1: 37:50

And then I feel like the overwhelm is more pushed on me to resolve. As opposed to that, there's a recognition of that. So I'd say that, yeah, if you see someone who's going through a lot and if there's not necessarily anything that you can do to remove that, just make sure that you don't remove them from your world. You know, interrupting them isn't a bad thing, Saying how are you Checking in? Hey man, we're going to go grab a beer. Oh, I can't make it. Okay, cool, Don't stop asking them if they can come and do something.

Speaker 1: 38:19

Just because they said no the three or four times in a row doesn't mean they won't say no the next time. So keep them involved. And I think the other thing like I said with me because I've got a lot of little things that sit there is if you recognize that there's some stuff that's that you're, um, either expected to do or needs to be done by the other person, that kind of stuff, do that great thing, do the thing where you can go here is how I think we can, we can go about doing that, and this is what I I think I can go and do to get that done and you'll see the like that you'll physically see that that person on the other side of the conversation will have like a, a relieved kind of sigh and that pressure kind of kind of mounds off them, because you know, if you keep coming with problems and problems and problems, um, that's really hard for someone who's got a lot on the desk to deal with yeah that's right and so recognize that.

Speaker 1: 39:05

so I would say yeah, I would say 100. Don't forget that they exist, walk in the other person's shoes and try to be a solutions-based person and a positive-based person with them.

Speaker 2: 39:14

Yep. Absolutely Walk in their shoes, empathize with them, be there with them, walk beside them.

Speaker 1: 39:19

Yep, yep.

Speaker 2: 39:20

Well, I think that's the beautiful way to end it, and just my final piece of advice is please, everyone, be kind to yourselves and to each other.

Speaker 1: 39:28

Look after yourself.

Speaker 2: 39:29

Yeah 100%.

Speaker 1: 39:30

Hey, mates, hang out and we might see you at a thing here or there and come give us a hug and if you're going through some stuff you know, feel free to let us know. I mean, is it a burden shared?

Speaker 2: 39:42

Is it?

Speaker 1: 39:42

better than a burden shared.

Speaker 2: 39:46

I don't know what it is either, but anyway, I know it's a saying.

Speaker 1: 39:49

Is it Something about some of that? Yeah, okay Well yeah, Well, Ali thank you. Thank you for being a good friend, thank you for giving me space and allowing me to be overwhelmed and to ignore you, and knowing that I'm not ignoring you.

Speaker 2: 40:01

Not at all.

Speaker 1: 40:06

It doesn't impact our relationship at so I love you, mate, and hopefully, hopefully, a combination of you continuing to get stronger and what you're carrying to continue to get lighter happens for you at the same time.

Speaker 2: 40:16

Thanks so much, appreciate it, and same for you, andrew. Okay, much love, bye, bye.

Speaker 3: 40:28

Wasn't that a fun adventure. My friends, you so much, so incredibly much, for hanging out with us today. Ali, you've been amazing. Andrew, you've been all right. How good is it to be able to have adventures together it so is, and you know what.

Speaker 2: 40:41

Keep following us. We are all over the socials at accounting adventures. Check us out on the website. Give us a bit of a like.

Speaker 3: 40:49

You know how much we love that stuff the best thing about the adventure is the people that we do it with, so thank you so much for listening, thank you so much for hanging out with us, and please bring all the ideas, keep, keep them coming. We can't wait to share more cool adventures with you we love you guys.

Speaker 2: 41:16

Bye.