Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey, ellie, yes, andrew. What do toilets and politicians have in common?

Speaker 2: 0:08

I don't want to answer. It might implicate me.

Speaker 1: 0:13

They both talk the language of poop. Do you like that one? I mean, that's a very political joke.

Speaker 2: 0:23

That's right. I'm guessing you don't like politicians or you just liked the joke.

Speaker 1: 0:27

I just like the joke. If I'm completely honest, you just like toilet humor.

Speaker 2: 0:32

Andrew, that's what this is, and you found the opportunity to get it in there.

Speaker 1: 0:36

Very much so. And obviously whenever the dad jokes come lying in, it is because we're talking about a particular topic and today, on our continual evolution of the future of accounting, the future freaks me out. We're talking about government regulation, which, for me, would normally be something. I would normally avoid this, if I'm completely honest.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Actually, do you know what? I think there's going to be some gold in this one. It might surprise you. So I want people to keep on listening. All right, it's going to be good, I mean, if we're getting you and I to discuss the future of government regulation within the accounting industry.

Speaker 1: 1:13

You know that we're probably going to go all over the place when it comes to this, so sit back, relax, get your beverage of choice and let's have a listen to our theme tune, and we'll be back in a moment with some good conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:42

Andrew. So this is government regulation all over, and as part of this series, we are having special guests, and today we are very, very lucky to have John Shepard, who is the first Assistant Secretary, digital ID and Data Policy Division. So he's the head of the Digital ID Task Force and Assurance Reviewer at the Department of Finance. He's an experienced public service leader with proven results, leading large-scale digital transformation of both the public and private sector. Over 20 years he also led the design and implementation of single-touch payroll for 800,000 Australian employers. So I can't think of anybody who is better to talk to about government regulation than John.

Speaker 1: 2:27

I mean that introduction just kind of makes me a bit nervous. I'm glad that, like the conversation's already happened and we've listened and we're coming back, but if he was live with us right now, I'd be very nervous about what I was going to.

Speaker 1: 2:41

Well, I feel like you know, sometimes, when you talk to people with that level of knowledge and depth behind the scenes of stuff, it's like I don't want to crack a joke right now. It's like you've probably worked a year on this one thing that I'm going to make a really silly joke on.

Speaker 2: 2:54

But do you know what I know for a fact? He likes your silly jokes and he likes your dad jokes we are all good, we are in safe hands.

Speaker 1: 3:03

All right, so let's go straight into it, Ali the future of government regulation. What do you think it's going to look like? Because obviously you've been dealing with government regulation for like a millennia right.

Speaker 2: 3:14

Yes, 30 years equals a millennia. Yes, that is correct. Yes, close enough.

Speaker 1: 3:19

It's transition time really the length that you've been working on it, but yes, so, and time really the length that you've been working on it, but yes, so you've seen a lot of change, as have I, yes, and there's going to be change going forward. But what do you think the future looks like?

Speaker 2: 3:33

What are you seeing in the future of regulation for us? Yeah, I think it's looking. You know, the snap word at the moment is automation. I think there'll be a lot more that's automated. I think they're going to try and get into that real live automated reporting and definitely there's a lot of data at the moment that we're now just starting to be able to plug into. So I think there'll be a lot more sharing of data between government departments and agencies. What that makes our job look like, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 4:04

And we're not going to talk about what scares us right now, but as an accountant versus as a taxpayer, I think there's. Depending where you sit in this situation. You might be scared of other things with that word of data sharing going through government. That could be very interesting in the future. Absolutely I mean it already is. We already see a lot of it now.

Speaker 2: 4:25

We already see a huge amount of data.

Speaker 1: 4:28

We know that we ordered them for that, and so we'll just tell all our buddies that, hey, they weren't so good at it and now we'll just order them other stuff.

Speaker 2: 4:34

So it's definitely and you know, it's something that I'm seeing, I guess, in practice is the level of reviews and audits because of the data sharing, because of the benchmarking information. You know I it's definitely eliminated a lot of the cowboys, um, and you just can't get away with things like the atf pretty much knows most of your income. They're going to get onto the real estate stuff soon, so you know, I.

Speaker 2: 4:56

I think we're going to get to the point where we're more the mediators, regulators, you know, rather than oh hey, can you do a dodgy for me and we get the pressure on there. I think the government and the way that they're going with their data collection and they understand the power of the data, they are well across it now.

Speaker 2: 5:14

I think they took a long time to get there, but they are there and I think there'll be this heightened level of security around it and we'll have to be really conscious of that as the gatekeepers of that data. So I think the cyber security stuff and the data privacy is going to absolutely explode and we need to be all across that and that's really from the future perspective where we really should be on top of it.

Speaker 1: 5:38

See, I look at the future and obviously I see a lot of, I predict a lot of change. You'd be a fool if you didn't. And I know that as an accounting practitioner, as a tax agent. Those kind of things like that change can be challenging to deal with, because it's like oh, I've just got my head around doing this thing and we do it well, and now either you're taking it away or you're changing it. So I think that change in that future, I think we'll continue to see a lot of it taking it away or you're changing it. So I think that change in that future, I think we'll continue to see a lot of it. And you said automation.

Speaker 2: 6:06

I think simplification is probably another phrase that gets thrown out there in terms of future government regulation? I'd love it if it was simplification.

Speaker 1: 6:14

It's a really interesting thing. It's like it's being simplified. Yes, I don't disagree, it is, but it depends on what perspective you're looking at it from so you're looking at it from the government, the uh, the taxpayer or the practitioner, and there's three people involved in this kind of thing, it's like where is it? Who is it more simple for? And so, uh, that's.

Speaker 2: 6:32

I think that's an interesting and I mean hot on the heels of this one, is the tax agent portal linking. Now, I'm not sure who finds it? Easier, the client doesn't find it easier, the agent doesn't find it easier, maybe the ato finds it easier. So in simplification it's simplification defined on on the end user. We may not be the end user, and so simplification we will scream at, but to somebody else it's more simple.

Speaker 1: 6:58

But then even the director ideas, you know, like it's like the idea of adding increased security, increased protection, those kind of things, and then trying to simplify at the same time. I feel like when you're trying to do two of those things at once, you're either stuffing up the security protection side of things or you're actually not making it simple. That's the hard thing, I think, when a lot of thought has to go into this stuff. I'm sure that there are very smart people who are spending a lot of time trying to make this work, that there are very smart people who are spending a lot of time trying to make this work, but sometimes it feels like they were sitting on the toilet and went. You know what this will do.

Speaker 2: 7:29

I've got to get something through. Every time I hear the word reduce red tape from the government, I'm like mm-mm, and so I think a lot of practitioners feel that way, but you know. I would love to know what actually John thinks on this one like what he thinks the future might look like.

Speaker 3: 7:53

Tell us, oh wise one, tell us.

Speaker 3: 7:54

So what will the future of the accounting profession be in relation to government regulation in 10 to 20 years?

Speaker 3: 7:57

That's an awful long time so it's hard to envisage, but I think I can only see a greater use of the data available in natural systems. Certainly, over the past five to 10 years we've seen better connections between accounting software and tax systems. We've seen changes like single-touch payroll, leveraged payroll processes for over 800,000 employers in Australia. We've seen the Australian Bureau of Statistics business surveys being supplemented by big data and opportunities for businesses to report directly from their accounting software instead of doing lengthy survey forms. I hope in 10 to 20 years we really do have better connected systems, not just at the Commonwealth but across Commonwealth and state agencies for regulatory reporting and we do get somewhere near that nirvana of Telus. Once that dream is real, we'll also see how systems and capabilities like digital ID and verifiable credentials, consumer data, right e-invoicing, greater use of artificial intelligence and whatever other technology and process solutions come along in that time period. They all might enable some of these changes I talk about.

Speaker 1: 9:09

Hmm, can we worry about. Right on the money. I reckon, I mean, ali, we're pretty smart.

Speaker 2: 9:14

I mean I know john's very smart on this topic, but I like, oh, I know well, he helped to do the sdp and he's now looking at um verification and I really loved that concept of just being able to identify your ID once and not have to do it multiple times. I mean how many?

Speaker 3: 9:32

times do we have to?

Speaker 2: 9:33

authenticate and go through this ID check and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. There's got to be an easier way.

Speaker 1: 9:39

There is. But I also wonder in terms of that ID check stuff. Like I know that every time I have to log into software like Xero, it's like hey, you need to re-enter your password and that kind of stuff. And so if ID is starting to become the verification, not a password, it's like is it now going to actually check that you are in fact who you are, not that you know a password? So I think that'll be interesting in terms of regulations. Like we're no longer doing passwords. Like we're no longer doing passwords, we're now wanting a drop of blood and that will verify. You need to do that every 20 minutes, otherwise we're going to log you out.

Speaker 2: 10:07

Yeah, and look, I think it'll go to facial recognition.

Speaker 1: 10:11

or even, do you know what I bank with ANZ and they've got a voice activation now as well, so I think it will, but then as soon as the ATO does that, does it, the ATO has that. It ATO does that, does it, the ATO has that. It's like I would like you to say this phrase I'm like, nah, not right now, yeah, not right now.

Speaker 3: 10:25

No, no, no, I don't have time.

Speaker 4: 10:26

I don't have time.

Speaker 2: 10:26

Nah, also, if I want one of my team to call Hello, my name is Ali. Yeah, follow the dog.

Speaker 1: 10:37

You just need a recorder. You have a little voice recorder sitting.

Speaker 2: 10:40

Do you know, bob? There'll be something where people will be able to replicate the audio generation just like they're able to now replicate the deep fakes and the visual right, and that's why cybersecurity is going to be so super. We're not going into.

Speaker 1: 10:54

AI Ali, Just calm down.

Speaker 1: 10:55

I do have a thought and a ponder and a question current climate and current financial environment. There's a lot of talk around interest rates and housing prices and wage and talking and looking at young and younger people and saying, hey, their ability to buy a home or get ahead in life, comparative to those who were in the same position, say 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago, is dynamically different. I wonder if the regulation that we're seeing put in place actually prohibits people's ability to grow and that's and I say this, I'm not at all condoning doing things inappropriately, but think about the audit side of things right.

Speaker 1: 11:34

20, 30, 40, 50 years ago people would have gotten away with so much stuff, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and they probably financially benefited significantly from that.

Speaker 1: 11:43

Oh think about the cash economy, Whereas now, yeah right, whereas now that it's much harder to do so. So younger people who may inadvertently or not inadvertently do things that may give them a financial benefit, either they're going to get found out, or what they're going to have to do it's almost not even worth doing it, and I wonder what that means in like 40, 50 years for the people who haven't been able to grow from a financial basis where they're dealing with housing prices and interest rates and everything right.

Speaker 2: 12:09

The other side of that is that the people that have been doing the right thing, then it's a level playing field, and this is where I get so upset. When people don't pay their tax or pay their super employees, you're not doing the right thing, whereas somebody else is and you're undercharging because you're not doing the right thing, and it's not a fair dichotomy, like it's not a fair economy. So I think it brings fairness back into the model. But I do agree with you, like you know, when you think about and this will most probably be the case a cashless society, you know everything is on the books. Every somebody knows everything about where you're spending every single cent of your money. When we're looking at the data that is available and in benchmarking and the ability for government to be able to review every single item, and you know if you're looking at that real-time reporting and live reporting right, there's no opportunity here if we're going to e-invoicing and all of these other types of matters.

Speaker 2: 13:02

Like there's nothing.

Speaker 1: 13:03

There's nothing changing here, and even well, I know, I know on a previous episode, david boyer talked a lot about wealth transfer and this stuff. That's shifting, happening and if we're in a situation now where there's less opportunity to inappropriately advance or there's more restriction and inability to do so, I think you're going to see more and more young and younger people that are literally waiting for their parents and grandparents to die Because, financially, I can't get ahead.

Speaker 1: 13:28

All this audit stuff is restricting me from kind of pushing. I don't want to take risks because the repercussion of those risks assuming they're doing legally things is too high and too hard to recover from. I guess I'll just sit on my hands and wait for someone to die now, as opposed to try to push and do good.

Speaker 2: 13:45

But then there's the entrepreneurial generation, which is the current generation. They're very entrepreneurial and they work in a global economy right. They do so they've got more opportunities and less boundaries than we ever had. So you know, and so I think government regulation will need to keep up with that, We'll need to go to more global digital economies to kind of keep up with all of that.

Speaker 1: 14:06

Oh, ellie, we have been talking a lot, but we do need to pause for a moment. You know why we pause around this time, every time, on our conversations, right? Do you know why? No, you don't know why. Sponsors we have sponsors. We have people that promote and support us, and we're going to go and we're going to have a listen to some incredible, exceptional people who do incredible, exceptional stuff in our industry. So sit back, fill up your drink, have a little listen, top it up and you should hit them up. You should hit them up and what you should also do, if you're not hitting them up, you should jump on our website and sign up for a newsletter.

Speaker 2: 14:43

And then you get monthly news on what's going on around that too.

Speaker 1: 14:46

Also, let them know that we sent you there. That's a good thing, Actually, that is a good thing, and if we didn't send you there, just let them know that we did anyway.

Speaker 2: 14:56

All right, that sounds good to me. I want you to picture this your knee deep in paperwork, drowning in a sea of ATO documents that seem to multiply overnight. Sound familiar? Because it was for me. Well, fear not, because ATO Smart Docs is here to save the day, and it certainly saved the day at all. In. With ATO Smart Docs, processing ATO documents is an absolute breeze. No more time spent downloading, renaming, filing the ATO docs. It connects to the ATO overnight, automatically downloading all of those documents and organising them for you. So they're ready to go. And the best part, it is secure. With two-factor authentication and encrypted documents, your sensitive information is safe and sound. So say goodbye to the days of sharing those ATO docs over in secure email. Please stop doing it, everybody. But wait. Like a good set of steak knives, there is more. With a fixed fee for unlimited use, you can kiss Billshock goodbye and, trust me, your team will thank you. Ato Smart Docs saves time, eliminates stress, keeps everyone happier and more productive.

Speaker 2: 16:09

And it's not just good news for you. Your clients will love it too. With ATO Smart Docs email vault, they can access all their ATO documents in one convenient spot with just one tap on their smartphone. So you guys don't have to keep delivering it to them time and time and time again. So why wait? Experience the freedom of ATO Smart Docs today. Today, make contact with them. Say hello to a world where ato documents are no longer a headache but a breeze fellow number crunches.

Speaker 1: 16:39

Do you find yourself sitting back going? You know what? When it comes to the world of finance, I've got it under control, but marketing, I just don't have the time for it or I don't feel comfortable or capable in doing that. Well, I can speak from experience. If you can build a brand that is true to who you are and they can communicate well and clearly to your broader community, you are going to attract incredible clients, exceptional team members, as well as have growth in areas in your business that you're hoping for.

Speaker 1: 17:09

Well, I want to introduce you to Tyson and the team from Practice and Pixels, great friend of ours here on the All Lossy Accounting Adventures podcast. Tyson and the team are experts at building a brand that is distinctive, differentiated and represents you and your team, as well as the clients that you want to work with. These guys do the whole thing when it comes to the world of marketing for accountants. They specialize in everything from brand development to digital marketing and website building. So you have a beautiful space for people to find you and know more about who you are. So why don't you go and do yourself a favor? Reach out to the crew at practiceandpixelscomau and see if they can help you realise the brand that you've been wanting to see for so long.

Speaker 2: 17:52

Hi, accounting adventurers, Ali here, and I'm coming to you with something that's absolutely revolutionised the way we at All In handle our day-to-day operations. And guess what? Our friends at Eliminate are also singing the praises for this absolute game changer. So let's dive into the world of FYI, which is document management and process automation. Imagine a tool so powerful it transforms your practice's weakest link into its strongest asset.

Speaker 2: 18:17

Document management a universal Achilles heel in our industry has completely turned around for us by using FYI. Gone are the days of endless searching for documents and worrying about document security. With FYI, peace of mind comes standard. Thanks to their ironclad document storage solutions and search functionalities that make finding what you need as easy as pie Plus, with total visibility across the practice. Everyone stays in the loop, ensuring that absolutely nothing slips through the cracks. How important is that? But FYI isn't just about storing and finding documents. It's about supercharging your productivity, integrating seamlessly with favorites like Fusign and XPM. Fyi takes your XPM workflow to the next level.

Speaker 2: 18:59

Imagine saying a permanent goodbye to those time-consuming manual processes and welcoming in an era of automation tailored to work smarter not harder.

Speaker 2: 19:09

for you and for those of you with a keen eye on security, as am I, fyi has got you covered with enterprise-grade protection, boasting reliability that exceeds 99.99% of the time, and that means no downtime, so you can sleep easy knowing your data is safeguarded with the best in the biz. And now let's talk about FYI Elite, the new kid on the block. It's a revolution in how you manage chargeable hours, building flexibility, advanced width management and customizable invoice approvals. So get ready for tailored insights and dynamic dashboards that offer you real-time visibility into your performance, alongside automations that are nothing short of revolutionary for your practice management. So, if you're ready to step up your accounting game and leave mediocrity in the dust because who isn't? It's time to consider FYI and FYI.

Speaker 3: 19:57

Elite.

Speaker 2: 19:58

Join us and the brilliant minds that illuminate in embracing the future of accounting with FYI. You can head over to their website at fyiapp to propel your practice towards unparalleled efficiency and success. Get on it.

Speaker 1: 20:16

So what are you nervous about then? If you're looking at that, what makes you nervous? Because I know, for me, I know that the number one thing I look at and I go back to a bit of history in the last few years I look at robo-debt.

Speaker 1: 20:26

And I go if we're bringing more automation, we're bringing more technology and we're bringing more of these things that theoretically should work well. All we need is it to slightly not go well and veer, off course just a millimeter, and by the time it's executing things it could be at quite a dramatic level.

Speaker 2: 20:42

And the damage that it caused to humans was enormous and a stress.

Speaker 1: 20:47

And it was a shocking display how many people are going to be told that they're doing the wrong thing when they're doing the right thing and they have to prove themselves for it. And we know that, like the ATO is theoretically the most powerful organization out there, you have to prove your innocence Absolutely. Like it's not the other way around, like you're just doing the wrong. Show me that you're not.

Speaker 2: 21:05

You know the RoboDebt stuff. But also, if I mention AI, that still hallucinates. So it's still not a perfect product and so, yeah, there's definitely fear around that. There's fear around for me. The live reporting direct to the ATO and I guess where the middleman cutting out that middleman, what does then our jobs look like? If that's the case, like, where is our functionality, where is our value in that proposition? If we're looking at removing tax returns, some people might see that as a bonus. Some people might be really scared of that. I mean, the deputy commissioner literally said you know, two years ago, in five years time we won't have individual tax returns. That's some people's bread and butter. So I think that there'll be some services that will no longer exist because of the automation, because of government regulation, because of them trying to become digital. And then the scare factor of you know you're telling me you're going to reduce red tape and it's going to be simple, but the reality is that you haven't been able to deliver that. So those are some really big, scary things for me.

Speaker 1: 22:07

What does John think? John, do you get scared about the future in government regulation or do you go just?

Speaker 2: 22:13

more work for me, mate.

Speaker 1: 22:14

It's pretty good. I don't know he's the one that's crowding it. Let's hear from John. Go friend.

Speaker 3: 22:26

So I'm not sure there's anything that really scares me in relation to the future of the accounting profession, in relation to government regulation in 10 to 20 years, other than the fact that I might still be here and you might hold me to account for some of the things I've talked about changing in that time. But in all seriousness, like all these things, it's not about the change in technology. It's about really about how do we help people adapt, how do we make sure people have got the right skill sets, both in the accounting profession, but also how do we help businesses and individuals really adapt to a lot of change over a long period of time, and it's not something that just changes overnight, it's something that changes gradually, so making sure we're kind of ready for those changes and it doesn't kind of creep up on us over that period.

Speaker 2: 23:10

Well, John is not scared of anything.

Speaker 1: 23:14

What a brave man I know.

Speaker 2: 23:16

Brave man. I know he needed to come in and de-freak us earlier. But, I think our scares are still valid, but in every scare you can turn it right, just like I said with tax returns Depending on where you sit, you can turn it right. Just like I said with tax returns, depending on where you sit, you can turn it into a pro or a con, and it's what you do.

Speaker 1: 23:37

It's an opportunity, right, there's always an opportunity to do something good with it and there's always opportunity to get ahead with it. And I mean, I think there's plenty of stuff to be excited about too, like what regulation can do, and I know that there there's. Like you look at the whole, okay, they're going to remove individual tax returns from being done. It's just going to be, you know, click submit. If you're happy with it, take it. And how many people are no longer going to require a tax agent to assist them to lodge their tax returns? And I appreciate that in that state, if you're an accountant and a large portion of your work is is built that, that that can be a little bit scary, but at the same time, I think that creates a lot more opportunity out there and a lot more innovation and a lot more thought process around that.

Speaker 1: 24:20

So if something we're doing is taken away from us, my hope and my wish is that we are seeing accountants be more strategically minded with the services they deliver and really start to push the boundaries on that client delivery and client experience side of things. Because, oh, I can't do an individual track tour anymore. I can, but I can only do it for like 50% of my client base now. So there goes 50, 100, half a mil, whatever that number is that you do.

Speaker 2: 24:46

But it's so low margin anyway mill, whatever that number is that you do, but it's so low margin anyway. So then it could, it could, um, free you up to do high margin consulting, advisory, human connection, like there is so many things that we can replace that with. And it's about being smart about that and that gives us a little bit of an icky feeling. Change always does. But the other side, if we can simplify, if we can reduce compliance burdens, then it frees us up to do the blue sky stuff, to do the innovative stuff, to do the advisory, to do the human to connect in. Maybe we work less, I don't know, but it excites me as to where we can utilize it and I think it's literally just leveraging the government, regulation and the tech to help bring out the human.

Speaker 1: 25:37

That for me, I agree super excites me I also look at that and I wonder, with like regulation around that kind of stuff, whether it will. Uh, like I would suggest that you would say the not the overwhelming majority, but probably the majority of Australians would be very sceptical of the Australian government or the Australian tax office saying you know what you can have this if you'd like and then going hold on, I could get more right if I actually did like.

Speaker 1: 26:04

So I would like to think that at the same time, from an excitement about that is, I think it might actually, in some states, reaffirm the value of a great accountant. So hold on a second. Oh, crap, okay, I'm only getting $500 where I used to get $1,000, or my business used to have much more visibility and runway on certain things, and now I've got much less because of this automation, because you're removing the person who used to help me now and now it's all me and you as the government, and I don't have the skill set or the comfort to do so. So I think I reckon it might actually increase the value and appreciation of what it is that we do.

Speaker 2: 26:40

Yeah, and look, I'm going to go down this rabbit hole because I don't think people necessarily understand what tax is initially Like. There's a lack of education in our country.

Speaker 1: 26:50

Well, there's Ubers now, not just taxis.

Speaker 2: 26:55

Like, even you see it every July where everyone complains about, oh, my refund and I don't have a good account because I'm not getting a good refund. Every accountant should come up with the same refund number. And of course we don't, because it's a self-assessment system and there's, you know, different interpretations of it. But like, surely there's just foundations in tax here that you can't change and you'd only get a different number if you're a cowboy Like you know. I think there's just this lack of education around what accountants actually do and what we can deliver, and that's the frustrating bit.

Speaker 2: 27:28

So I think we need to become way more clever and really market ourselves to exactly what do we do? What value do we deliver? Because if we don't get that right, we might lose revenue because people don't understand what else we can deliver. We might lose revenue because people don't understand what else we can deliver, and if we're not communicating that, then we're. We are really going to come to a bit of a fork in the road, because if you've just lost all of your 300 tax returns or whatever, and you haven't been able to communicate the value of or other services and other advisory or what else you can do, you are screwed. Yes, that's my rabbit hole.

Speaker 1: 28:08

And I'm going to join you from a rabbit hole that I've been digging to the side as well.

Speaker 2: 28:12

Please, I like it, let's join the rabbit hole.

Speaker 1: 28:14

As an industry, we've been talking about how under-resourced we are and there's not enough accountants. So if all of a sudden there's a bunch of stuff that we used to do that we don't have to do, theoretically that means we have less work to do at certain levels, which means either there's people out there that are looking for jobs, that we go great, now I can find people or people within our organization have time, and as long as we're pricing things properly and we're being paid the right value, oh, actually, that's actually not a bad thing. If I'm doing the right stuff, I think there's a lot of good that can come from this.

Speaker 2: 28:42

I thought that as well if I'm doing the right stuff. I think there's a lot of good that can come from this. I thought that as well. We talk about under-resourcing, but we've got all of this tech available to us. It's more about being efficient and scalable by leaning on this tech, and we just don't do it.

Speaker 1: 28:58

Let's be honest as well. Every time there's been government regulation and government change in our industry, it's meant more work for us.

Speaker 2: 29:03

It has. The biggest one is obviously.

Speaker 1: 29:05

GST, and then you've looked at STP and you look at all these other bits and pieces. There's always more work that we can do, but the challenge is that us as an industry and I don't mean just industry bodies, I mean as individual practitioners and businesses is we need to ensure that, collectively, we're communicating the value that's there, because often what you'll find is you'll find people that won't communicate the value and downtrod it, like when I talk about you know, stop saying that I I don't talk like I'm not like any other accountant or that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1: 29:32

like you, you're pushing our industry down so that means when there is regulation, where there is change, that we need to make sure that collectively we're not complaining about it to our clients and whatnot, but we're communicating the value of our involvement in that and why this is a good opportunity for them to do well, but also there's opportunity for us to do that Well. We can get paid for it.

Speaker 1: 29:54

I mean, I don't know about you, but like SDP finalization that's a new thing and if you're not charging your clients to do that and you are doing that, maybe you should have a think about the value that you're delivering there. There's an opportunity for a very, very simple thing that maybe you've gone. Hey, actually I've been doing this now, like you know, once a year we've got to do a quick payroll reconciliation. Maybe I should think a bit bigger and go. Maybe maybe a payroll tax and a work cover reconciliation, maybe a quick analysis on their wage cost from year to year and comparative to income, and go. Hey, here's just a quick bit of knowledge for you. That's going to take me maybe 15, 20 minutes more than it ordinarily would, but the value is so much more because you can push that yeah, how can I monetize that?

Speaker 2: 30:32

I completely and utterly agree with you and I do think it's the way that we look at it. You know what angle are we looking at. I think in everything you can see the good and the bad, but it's sometimes up to us to you know, stop gap the bad, but see it as an opportunity and in this regard, I think we're going to have to be very commercial.

Speaker 2: 30:51

How do we commoditize our products, how do we commoditize our services, how do we commoditize our value? And if we aren't clear on those things, then I think moving forward into the future we might not do well.

Speaker 1: 31:06

Um and now we will. It'll be great and but you know, you know what, though? John was not scared. No, I want to know if he's excited. I want to know is he just? Is he just like? Is he just like what we picture? Like, you know, regulatory political, like that kind of person, like I'm justic, I am the same at all time.

Speaker 3: 31:26

I'm either excited or scared?

Speaker 1: 31:27

I am John, or is he frothing yeah?

Speaker 2: 31:31

I think he's frothing.

Speaker 1: 31:31

Let's have a listen. Get me happy, John.

Speaker 3: 31:39

What excites me or gets my heart racing in relation to the future of the accounting profession, in relation to government regulation? Probably not a lot of things, things, but probably a current one my current role leading digital id. Um, I do get excited about um having to overshare all my personal identity information over and over again, um, whether that's when I'm dealing with government or whether I'm actually helping my son to rent a house. Um, I really think there's a great opportunity here to do better and stop oversharing. Use things like digital ID, mygovid, to actually verify yourself once and reuse that over and over. So I know that's a bit of a nerdy digital ID response, but very timely, very timely.

Speaker 2: 32:30

Andrew is just opening up a biscuit, a cookie.

Speaker 4: 32:37

A cookie.

Speaker 1: 32:38

Sorry, John, you got me so excited.

Speaker 2: 32:40

John was very, very, very excited about the one-stop shop digital I d do not. Oh, now I'm hungry. He's excited about that, and what's great about that is he's heading that up, so I hope we come out with a very fantastic product that we can use. That helps us so we don't need to redo passwords and have to verify our identity a kajillion times a day.

Speaker 1: 33:07

He's got me feasting. I'm actually eating, but he's got me feasting off that this is a cookie from a certain accounting software provider.

Speaker 2: 33:14

I think a few people got cookies from this accounting provider. I did not, but I think I know why.

Speaker 1: 33:23

Because you don't have a beard, You're not a bloke or something probably.

Speaker 2: 33:26

I don't think I sit on an advisory council. Yes, anyways.

Speaker 1: 33:31

Anyways Was it good.

Speaker 4: 33:33

It was good.

Speaker 1: 33:33

I mean, I love to hear people who are, because, whilst I would like to think that, as practitioners and business owners, some of us are creating change and driving the industry forward, whether it's from a regulatory perspective, a pricing, a service, a culture, whatever it looks like Realistically we're not sitting there trying to build something that we know is going to be used in a year or three's time for everybody. We're just doing it for ourself, and so I love to hear from like John talking about like, here's the thing that we're going to be. It's going to be cool. That's why it's exciting. It's going to impact everybody, all right, so we've been excited.

Speaker 2: 34:08

Yep, we've been scared.

Speaker 1: 34:10

I've feasted on a cookie. I'm halfway there. I'm going to finish it off in a minute. We've talked about what gets us nervous. We've talked about what we think the future John, with his infinite wisdom, has shared deeply with us. You and I, ellie, we're going to wrap this thing up, but we need to talk about what can we be doing? What is something we can be doing to be better prepared for the change and the future of regulation within our industry?

Speaker 2: 34:32

Yeah, and look, I'm big on the education component here. It is absolutely key. But one of the things that I'm super on top of at the moment is this gradual change. So not making something so big. It's like an elephant and you just don't know where to start. It's making individual, small, baby step changes. So you know this concept of making one small change every 90 days.

Speaker 1: 34:57

I thought you said this concept of wanking, one small change, and I was like jeepers, ellie, that was broad.

Speaker 3: 35:03

Making, making.

Speaker 2: 35:04

Making.

Speaker 1: 35:05

Don't worry, let's Andrew just bring it back to the gutter.

Speaker 2: 35:08

Making one small change every 90 days, and so that might be more about making sure that your cybersecurity is. You know you're on top of everything. It might be making sure that you're heading into utilizing software that helps to automate a lot of the compliance and regulation stuff for you.

Speaker 2: 35:29

So it's just those very small little steps you know like. Even there's so many director, you know, as when you onboard a client you've got to now ID them. There's so many BGLID does fantastic work there. So it's making those small little baby steps that you can take so that you don't get to five, ten years time ago. Oh, I'm so behind, I don't even know where to start. We are in trouble. What about you?

Speaker 1: 35:54

uh, my advice here is uh and harking back to I think was our first episode on this the future of accounting is community. Understand and appreciate the communities that you are connected within and make sure that you have the right ones that will help to inform and empower you as the change goes through, because it's going to be a lot and we can liken back to massive moments in our industry where, like you're scrolling through pages and pages and pages of information, and so, if we can hive mind that, collectively, that's really valuable. And so I would say there's probably two types of communities we're talking about here. One we're talking probably more of a peer-to-peer social style community, so you might jump on a Facebook group there's a good, the small business advisors ones and those kind of things out there that are fantastic, where a lot of people will talk back and forth on that. And then you've probably got more of your technical communities, like where you would go to learn and be taught and educated on these kind of things.

Speaker 1: 36:51

So I would be recommending you have at least a foot in one of each of those style communities and that you're listening and learning and contributing to that, but at the same time, with a slight word of caution, because someone says something doesn't mean that's the way to go about it no, so true, I agree. Make sure you do your research, make sure you do understand that, make sure you look into it, and that is both from a social and from a technical side of things. I know that there has been sometimes a technical conversation from a technical leader and I've gone and looked into it. I'm like I don't think that's right.

Speaker 2: 37:22

That's right and I've gone. You know what. That's good, but it's so customizable to so many different nuances and situations. So there's this big issue of blanket ruling everything. We know that as practitioners and we really do need to get into the nitty-gritty detail, because one minor change in detail will change the whole parameter. So that I completely agree with you Community is important. So that I completely agree with you Community is important. Education is important, but checking the data, validating the data I think and that's something future-wise we are going to have to really really focus on is validating outcomes and conclusions is going to be super important as we head into the future.

Speaker 1: 38:04

Absolutely Well, Ellie.

Speaker 3: 38:06

Yes.

Speaker 1: 38:06

Andrew, it's been a great adventure. I've enjoyed it. We've started with toilet humour.

Speaker 2: 38:11

Neither of us fell asleep. John was amazing. We've ended up with community.

Speaker 1: 38:16

If I'm honest, sometimes we go. I know that we said we're looking forward to talking about this, but this was when I was looking. I'm like what are we going to talk about? As we unpacked and I prepped for this yes, I did some- prep. Yes, so did I I was like oh, actually there's a lot here and there's so much more. So, friends, community adventurers whoever you are, wherever you are, whatever you do, be rad, enjoy your adventure and, hopefully, keep looking at the future and how good it can be for us all.

Speaker 2: 38:43

Keep on listening. Bye guys Hooey.

Speaker 4: 38:56

Wasn't that a fun adventure, my friends, thank you so much, so incredibly much, for hanging out with us today. Ali, you've been amazing. Andrew, you've been all right. How good is it to be able to have adventures together.

Speaker 2: 39:08

It so is, and you know what. Keep following us. We are all over the socials at Accounting Adventures. Check us out on the website. Give us a bit of a like. You know how much we love that stuff.

Speaker 4: 39:19

The best thing about the adventure is the people that we do it with. So thank you so much for listening, thank you so much for hanging out with us, and please bring all the ideas. Keep Rikimum coming. We can't wait to share more cool adventures with you.

Speaker 2: 39:33

We love you guys.