The Future of Accounting: People

Speaker 1: 0:00

Ellie.

Speaker 2: 0:01

Yes, Andrew.

Speaker 1: 0:03

Why did the calendar go to therapy?

Speaker 2: 0:10

Oh, nothing's springing to mind.

Speaker 1: 0:12

Because its days were always numbered.

Speaker 3: 0:17

Good, good, good. It's good, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 0:19

Yeah, they've picked a couple of good ones recently. Well done, I'm talking about future.

Speaker 1: 0:22

It's about days being numbered the future and today we're talking about future.

Speaker 2: 0:25

It's about days being numbered the future.

Speaker 1: 0:26

Are they numbered, though? We're talking about people within the accounting industry. Are the days of people numbered within the accounting industry Ali.

Speaker 2: 0:33

Yeah right, Are they Crazy to think about? It kind of blows my mind a little bit. So I'd love to unpack this a little bit more.

Speaker 1: 0:39

You've spent a fair chunk of your life possibly more than half of your life now as an accountant. Yeah, yeah, I'm getting close to that. Actually, no, I would.

Speaker 2: 0:49

Yeah, and I'm 20 years this year and I'm 38, so that's even just blown my mind. Look at that. Just just explosives everywhere in the intro. Andrew, you've got to stop.

Speaker 1: 0:56

I have to prepare myself for the more than half of our life as an accountant, our identity to some extent have been connected to them Today we're going to talk about in 20 years' time, will people even be identifying as an accountant? Would that be a thing? What do people look like? And before we get in there, you know what we have to do, what do we have to do?

Speaker 2: 1:16

Oh, the intro music.

Speaker 1: 1:17

The theme tune has to play the theme tune. It's the theme tune, david, play us the song please. All right, rad, that's good.

Speaker 2: 1:37

Did you like the theme? Tune the theme tune.

Speaker 1: 1:39

You've got to play the theme tune, so we're talking people.

Speaker 2: 1:44

Yeah, we're talking people Before we get into it, though. Yeah, okay, before we get into it. Before we get into it.

Speaker 1: 1:49

Ella, you've got children. How old are your kids 6, 14 and 18. And I have 1, almost 7 and 10.

Speaker 2: 1:57

Look at us. Probably, by the time this goes live, it'll have 1, 7 and 10. We just bridge all the gaps, all the generations.

Speaker 1: 2:04

And what we thought would be good, yeah, is to actually ask them. I know about people and so we're going to cut to a bit of audio of ali chatting with her kids and me chatting with mine, and we asked them three questions. Yeah, we asked them what do they want to do when they're, when they're big, when they grow up? Yep, now, if one of your kids they kind of almost starting that well, they still don't know, but they're trying.

Speaker 1: 2:23

What jobs do they think will exist in 20 years' time? And what do they think an accountant would look in 20 years' time, based on what they know of mum or dad? Yep, yep.

Speaker 2: 2:32

They might be asking me what does an accountant do at this point, and I'm really looking forward to Jericho's response.

Speaker 1: 2:36

Jericho the one-year-old, who's going to go Dad, Dad, dad. Well, we're going to cut to that and we're going to have a listen and it's going to be amazing. I hope so. I'm here with a very special person.

Speaker 3: 2:53

What's your name, leora?

Speaker 1: 2:54

And why are you special?

Speaker 3: 2:57

I don't know Because you're my daughter.

Speaker 1: 3:00

Oh yeah, and how old are you?

Speaker 3: 3:03

I'm 10.

Speaker 1: 3:04

10. And what grade are you in? Grade 4.

Speaker 3: 3:06

And how old are you? I'm 10., 10. And what grade are you in? Grade 4. And you're enjoying school.

Speaker 1: 3:09

Yes, that's good to know. Yeah, I've got some very important questions to ask you, leora. Are you ready to answer them?

Speaker 3: 3:14

Yes.

Speaker 1: 3:15

Think deep and hard, okay, okay when you're older in 20 years' time, how? Old are you going to be in 20 years'?

Speaker 3: 3:31

time I'll be 30. Yeah, what do you want to do for a job?

Speaker 1: 3:40

I right now want to be a cake artist, but I'm not sure if I'll keep going or stop, Because you've wanted to be a few things, haven't you? Yeah?

Speaker 3: 3:44

What else?

Speaker 1: 3:45

have you wanted to be? I've also wanted to be. A few things haven't you?

Speaker 3: 3:46

Yeah, what else have you wanted to be? I've also wanted to be a netball player, and I've also wanted to be an astronaut.

Speaker 1: 3:59

Lots of different stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 4:05

Think about what I do as an accountant. You do mathy stuff. Well what do you think accountants look like in 20 years' time, in the future? They're like old grandparents and yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1: 4:22

I might be old, or or Ali Ali might be older. You know Ali, my co-host. Yeah, you know how old she is no, Much older than me. But think about what other accountants might be doing. So not just me, but what do accountants in general normal in 20 years' time, in the future? What do you reckon future accountants will be doing?

Speaker 3: 4:44

What do you reckon future accountants will be doing? They'll be like. I actually don't know.

Speaker 1: 4:53

This is interesting.

Speaker 3: 4:57

What do you think accountants do they like do tax stuff and they do tax for other people, anything else. They work as a team.

Speaker 1: 5:15

That's good. I need to expose you more to what accountants do. Oh, all right, and thinking in the future, in 20 years' time. So not today, but in the future, where there are robots and stuff, maybe, maybe not, who knows. What type of jobs do you think exist then?

Speaker 3: 5:40

What type of things will?

Speaker 1: 5:42

people need to do in the future for a job.

Speaker 3: 5:47

Anything new, anything different, or is it all the same?

Speaker 1: 5:51

I'm thinking maybe there'll be a couple new jobs and what kind of jobs do you think?

Speaker 3: 5:59

I'm not sure, but I'm just going to say there's more jobs, more jobs, sure, but I'm just going to say there's more jobs, More jobs. Do you think that it'll be the same or different than it is now in 20 years' time, maybe half?

Speaker 1: 6:16

same, half different. Okay, what things can you think of that might be different? Is there anything you'd think of in the future?

Speaker 3: 6:26

You know like, ooh, that'll be here, that's not here now, flying cars.

Speaker 1: 6:28

You reckon flying cars yeah.

Speaker 3: 6:31

Anything else and and Not sure.

Speaker 1: 6:47

Well, that's exciting. So in 20 years time, you hope to be a cake decorator.

Speaker 3: 6:53

Yes.

Speaker 1: 6:53

You think I'll be old and grandpary.

Speaker 3: 6:57

Yes.

Speaker 1: 6:58

You think that accountants will still kind of do tax stuff?

Speaker 3: 7:01

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:02

And work in a team and you think that'll be flying cars and the jobs will look different. Yes, that's a good summary. Yeah, how much do you love your dad?

Speaker 3: 7:11

So much.

Speaker 1: 7:12

Excellent. Love you too, buddy. Thank you, love you, thank you.

Speaker 2: 7:21

Hi Lachlan, you are the first-time guest on the All Aussie Accounting Adventures podcast, so we're talking about the future of accounting, what accounting might look like in the next 10 to 20 years, but also what the future of, I guess, jobs might look like. So first of all, I just wanted to ask you what do you think accountants do?

Speaker 4: 7:47

just wanted to ask you what do you think accountants do? Well, I actually don't have a really good idea, but in my personal thought, I'd think that accountants would be something to do with taxes and to help people, like understand how to do their jobs, and just really helping them out helping them out.

Speaker 2: 7:57

Yeah, okay, beautiful. So if we're looking at maybe in 10 years time, obviously, with all the technology that's coming and all the artificial intelligence and potentially robots, what do you think accountants might be doing then? Do you think that there'll still be taxes?

Speaker 4: 8:14

I definitely think that it'd still be quite the same, because I don't think a robot or any AI could actually do the same job that an accountant could. Taxes maybe, but just giving advice to people I don't think that AI would be able to do that at all.

Speaker 2: 8:30

And what about jobs in the future? What do you think the jobs in the future might look like?

Speaker 4: 8:37

How far in the future are we talking about 10, 20? Years 10, 20 years. I think 10, 20 years would be about the same. Honestly, you think it's about the same. 10, 20 years I think 10, 20 years would be about the same. Honestly, you think it's about the same.

Speaker 2: 8:47

10, 20 years wouldn't be much of a difference A few hundred maybe but yeah, do you think there'll be new jobs that may be uninvented now?

Speaker 4: 8:53

Possibly. It just really depends on if anybody thinks of anything new or if yeah, if anything comes up.

Speaker 2: 9:01

And just lastly and I've always wanted to ask you this at what point will you be ready to take over all? Of them Are you going to take after your poppy and your mum.

Speaker 4: 9:16

Personally, I don't really like office jobs, but I'll see where we go in the future.

Speaker 2: 9:23

Well, okay, because I'm a very creative person, so I'm sure that I can create an accounting role that isn't inside an office.

Speaker 4: 9:30

You reckon.

Speaker 2: 9:30

Yep, I'm pretty sure I can do it.

Speaker 4: 9:31

You reckon that's the challenge. That's the challenge. If you get something that I might enjoy, that's maybe outside of the office and possibly but.

Speaker 2: 9:40

Why do you think people might not want to become an accountant?

Speaker 4: 9:44

Same reason. I do Don't like office jobs, not there type of thing. Maybe people don't like numbers. Maybe people don't give great advice. Maybe it's people like doing hardy jobs, stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 9:54

Yeah, right, and so you know there's a lot of jobs around at the moment that are more popular than others. Why do you think that is? What do you mean by more popular others? Why do you?

Speaker 4: 10:02

think that is. What do you mean by more popular, as in like people like them more or they're more useful.

Speaker 2: 10:09

Yeah, more that they like them more. So, for instance, accounting isn't a profession that a lot of people go into, yeah, yeah. And do you think that that's because they might perceive it as a certain like, like an office-bound job, and that it's not exciting Look?

Speaker 4: 10:26

when people don't really know what accounting is like. I don't really know, I just know basics, I think.

Speaker 2: 10:33

Yeah, you hear me on the phone sometimes.

Speaker 4: 10:36

Yeah, when people don't really understand what it is. I think that's more of like a taxi job and like a boring numbers job where you do like math and stuff.

Speaker 2: 10:48

But yeah, so do you think if we got into schools and universities telling them what accountants do? Because it's a really broad diverse? Group of people that that might be one of the ways that we can help to improve the number of people coming into accounting, or is there another way?

Speaker 4: 11:07

Well, I definitely think that going into a lot of schools and unis and stuff like that and just teaching kids more about what it's actually like, I think you will get a lot more people going into accounting. But people just have different mindsets and some people may not like it. So even if they know what it is, still might not like it.

Speaker 2: 11:24

Yeah, it's very interesting. All right, thank you so much, Lucky.

Speaker 4: 11:28

All good.

Speaker 1: 11:34

What's your name? Raya and what's your last name? Vanderbeek. Vanderbeek, that's a good last name, isn't it? Yeah, how do you know me?

Speaker 3: 11:43

Because of my dad.

Speaker 1: 11:44

Am I really? Yes, and what are you, mate? I'm six, six. And when do you turn seven? In April, I turn six. Oh, everyone knows your birthday now. So soon, very soon, you excited to be on the podcast. Yeah, I just got you out of bed, didn't I? You were sleepy and tired and cold, weren't you? Yes, well, raya, I want to ask you questions about the future.

Speaker 3: 12:13

Okay.

Speaker 1: 12:13

In 20 years' time. How old are you going to be in 20 years' time if you're six now? Sixty Close enough close enough 26, but it's close enough. How old will I be in 20 years' time? Do you think I?

Speaker 3: 12:31

don't know.

Speaker 1: 12:34

Yes, correct answer. Correct answer. Well, I want to ask you about jobs and what people do for work in 20 years' time Not today, but in the future. What kind of jobs do you think people are going to do in the future? Is it the same as today or will it look different?

Speaker 3: 12:54

Maybe a little bit different.

Speaker 1: 12:55

What kind of things do you think might be different? You don't know, I don't know. Okay, fair enough. Well, thinking about in 20 years' time, when you're going to be 26, almost 27 years old what job do you want to be doing?

Speaker 3: 13:22

Maybe not a job just being on TV doing gymnastics?

Speaker 1: 13:27

Oh, so you want to do gymnastics. That's kind of like a job. But it won't feel like a job maybe.

Speaker 3: 13:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:35

Being on TV and everyone watches you doing gymnastics. Yeah, you do hold the school record of hanging from the monkey bars for six and a half minutes before letting go, don't you? Yeah, super strong girl you are. Now I have a question about what I do. What do I do? Do you know what Daddy does?

Speaker 3: 13:52

You do two things.

Speaker 1: 13:53

Lots of things, but what's the thing that I've done the most?

Speaker 3: 13:57

Working at Illuminate.

Speaker 1: 13:59

Yeah, and what does Illuminate do? Day what does Illuminate do? They what do you think?

Speaker 3: 14:10

Do podcasts.

Speaker 1: 14:12

Do podcasts? Well, that's close. We do a podcast there, yes, but we're accountants, remember. We do accounting. Yeah, what is accounting? I don't know, you don't know. Can you think of some things that Daddy does for accounting? That might be there.

Speaker 3: 14:27

Maybe call people.

Speaker 1: 14:29

Yeah, call people. And what do I do when I call them?

Speaker 3: 14:36

What do I do when I call them? You talk about special things.

Speaker 1: 14:39

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:40

And like things that are going to happen.

Speaker 1: 14:43

Okay, I talk to them about things that are going to happen. That's good. I like that.

Speaker 3: 14:51

That's a really good example In 20 years' time, though in the future, do you think there'll be robots?

Speaker 1: 14:58

Maybe, maybe. What other things do you think might happen in 20 years' time? That might be different.

Speaker 3: 15:06

Maybe there'll be bigger houses.

Speaker 1: 15:08

Bigger houses. Wow, that's crazy. If you think about what Daddy does for accounting and then what all the other people in the world who are accountants what they do do, you think it will be the same in 20 years time, or different.

Speaker 3: 15:28

Maybe a bit different Okay.

Speaker 1: 15:30

Can you think of what might be different?

Speaker 3: 15:35

Maybe the work that they do it might change and they might like they might like change jobs with someone else.

Speaker 1: 15:52

Yeah, fair enough. And will we be doing the same kind of accounting or different type of accounting?

Speaker 3: 16:05

Some people might and some people maybe won't Fair enough.

Speaker 1: 16:09

Do you like accounting?

Speaker 5: 16:16

Do you?

Speaker 1: 16:16

You do yes, okay, why why?

Speaker 3: 16:20

Why? Because it's really cool.

Speaker 1: 16:24

Oh, because accounting's cool. Well, you heard it here from Raya Abigail Vanderbeek, my six-year-old daughter Accounting is cool because you get to talk to people about the future and what's going to come. Yeah, I love that. Thank you, darling. I love you, mate. Say bye-bye to everybody. Bye-bye, awesome Ellie. Thank you for chatting with your children about that. That was good, um, and my kids. Good on you for being kids and stuff. This is the best are you hoping that they become accountants and?

Speaker 1: 16:57

100 and if they don't, what are you going to do to them?

Speaker 2: 17:01

anyway, disown them do you know what? Just want someone you know to follow in my footsteps. But I highly suspect my son will.

Speaker 1: 17:08

But you know, look, I just want someone who's willing to wipe my ass when I'm old and I need my ass wiped. You know, that's what I want.

Speaker 2: 17:15

I'm hoping one of them will. If there's still a job around in accounting, who knows.

Speaker 1: 17:19

And so leading into people. So what do you think the accounting industry looks like as a human? Are people required? What do they look like? What are they doing?

Speaker 2: 17:31

Yeah, I think they are still required. There's an enormous human element in what we do and it is very relationship-based, and so moving away from the trusted advisor to the human advisor, I think, is super important for us over this next decade. But, yeah, I definitely think there's still a place for people, but that's not to say that I also think that there's a place for tech, or bots, and I think that there will be layers of how we think about tech that we will need to work through reclassify, rework, similar to what we have, you know, in the last 20 years around diversity and inclusion. I think we'll have to look at tech in potentially a different way.

Speaker 1: 18:11

You might have a bot team that you have to reward in different ways and you might have a people team that you have to reward in different ways, like a percentage of business that must be human versus non-human. Potentially, potentially, yeah, which sounds so crazy to think about but the idea of this is we're thinking like at least we we're thinking crazy.

Speaker 2: 18:29

And this is maybe the way that we can kind of wrap our head around is the outsourced model right? Like 10, 20 years ago, some people really accepted it, took it on, ran with it. Others were like no, I'd never do that. Blah, blah, blah. Now a lot of people are using that outsourced model, so we've gone more a global model rather than local. So I guess we're now looking from local to global to tech Totally and how we relate to the tech.

Speaker 2: 18:55

I mean gosh, who knows what happens when robots come and can do things Like? Do we reward them? How do we treat Siri right now Like it's one of those things that it'll be interactive tech, it'll be virtual reality?

Speaker 1: 19:08

so you're thinking that tech will have like emotions and will do things? Or won't do things and so we're not going to build tech, simply to do what we wanted to do. I don't know well, is this not?

Speaker 2: 19:17

the, the larger ethics around. What's currently happening is that tech could overrun, override, overtake.

Speaker 1: 19:26

Terminator style.

Speaker 2: 19:30

Yeah, but there's an ethical component here and that's where I think the ethics of diversity and inclusion, and it's not unforeseeable to me that we do have a bot team and a human team and they interact and that we reward them differently and that they have different roles and jobs and feelings. It's not actually beyond my scope of imagination.

Speaker 1: 19:51

Okay, let's remove tech from it, yep. So right now there's big conversations around offshoring was one thing you mentioned, yep. Gender is another one where there's big things around equity and gender in terms of responsibility, pay and the like.

Speaker 2: 20:05

Working from home. Remote workforce.

Speaker 1: 20:06

Working from home versus working there People of a certain age young or old? You know what people want to do because they're younger and they don't want to do certain things.

Speaker 2: 20:17

Generational differences? What people?

Speaker 1: 20:18

don't want to learn and do because they might be older and so like right now. But let's zoom in on a couple of these ones. So you are a woman, I am a man.

Speaker 2: 20:27

No, I know right, Look at those things you were just. Oh, explosions everywhere. This is both what we've realised. Light bulb moments for me.

Speaker 1: 20:34

And this is a big part of a conversation within our industry and across multiple industries around that, and there's things like gender pay gap reports. I think I saw something that came out the they just literally dropped yeah, it's all over my LinkedIn feed, which is interesting. I haven't actually looked into how they did the calculation, because it's like a certain percentage and it's like 30-something percent at some places. I'm like is that?

Speaker 2: 20:52

Some of those are football clubs, but some of those are the big four.

Speaker 1: 20:54

Yeah, but I'm like In fact, one of mine was an ex-employer.

Speaker 2: 21:00

I don't want to go too hard.

Speaker 1: 21:01

I'm like Because the people of certain genders that are in different roles and they haven't had the ability to move into the next role.

Speaker 2: 21:06

This is where we need to understand what the gender pay gap is. It's not a woman manager and a male manager in the same role being paid the same amount. That's not what it is. It's looking at the whole organisation number of men to females and the ratio of where the money is being spent.

Speaker 1: 21:19

Yes.

Speaker 2: 21:20

And so it usually aligns to women have lesser roles, less senior roles than men, so the men get paid more over the totality. So that's what I believe the gender pay gap is referring to in this scenario. It's not like for like roles.

Speaker 1: 21:32

And do they ask either woman or man whether they would like to have a more, higher or lesser role?

Speaker 2: 21:38

No, and look, we've had many conversations. I think on prior podcast episodes about this, because you know you take a hit to your revenue for the flexibility potentially, but you know there are still stories coming out where women are paid less. Oh, totally, yeah, so I didn't want to dive into it too much. It's more about that. It's still there. Yeah, when it's like, this business has a 30% pay gap.

Speaker 1: 22:01

It's like well they do because of….

Speaker 2: 22:03

Because there's more senior men than.

Speaker 1: 22:05

But there might be actually a really valid reason, but we don't know.

Speaker 2: 22:07

Anyway, no, and yeah, I think it's, if it's systemic in an organisation, if it reeks of it or if it's just accidental. But anyway, it is what it is, which a LinkedIn post can't tell you.

Speaker 1: 22:16

But do you see that in 20 years' time, do you see there being a dramatic shift in that?

Speaker 2: 22:22

I'm seeing some really positive shifts forward in relation to certain generations and how they perceive the gap and the diversity and equity and inclusion conversation. So I'm hopeful that it'll be stamped out by then. But they are saying it, it's. It's not in this generation, but potentially the next well, there's the thing, right.

Speaker 1: 22:40

It's just people evolving and it's not like we can go great. All right, let's pay all these people like 50% more tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 22:45

The laws are catching up as well, whereas now there's no. Before you couldn't, some people were contracted not to be able to talk about their remuneration, whereas now, obviously, there's laws that say that you cannot prohibit people.

Speaker 2: 22:57

So I think the law is now catching up with what we are trying to achieve and it's not tokenism but effort and reward and getting just the right people in the right job. So taking away the gender, the culture differences and just it's about you know you earn your way there. I'm hopeful that that will come in this next generation.

Speaker 1: 23:17

And I guess it does require a generation of change to kind of get to that point, because and that's not suggesting that people who aren't in roles and responsibilities now haven't earned it it's more a matter of it's not like we can magically create a role for that person to move into. So, then, we need to allow that and ensure that there's a more equitable approach to the-.

Speaker 2: 23:34

And I also think, if I look at when I was growing up in my career, there were certain things that I knew I just had to put up with because I couldn't change it, whereas I know that there are some very incredibly strong, or a lot of incredibly strong women that just won't put up with it anymore.

Speaker 1: 23:51

Or because of those strong women. It has already changed and now people are not having to face it, right yeah possibly.

Speaker 2: 23:56

So I think there's another part of that generational change coming in, where it's more you can talk about it now, where there's laws supporting you. There's laws supporting you. There's more recognition around this unconscious bias that we all bring to the table. So I think?

Speaker 1: 24:13

Do you think it's going to be talked about? So we're talking about people in the accounting industry. Do you think, not hope? Do you think that in 20 years' time, the phrase gender equity or equitable, or whatever that phrase is that we might choose to use for various different reasons, do you think it is a phrase that is commonly used in 20 years?

Speaker 2: 24:33

I am innately a hopeful person.

Speaker 1: 24:35

A lot of hope.

Speaker 2: 24:36

Yes, I believe that Cool, I believe it.

Speaker 1: 24:39

So, then, let's to make sure that we don't talk about gender for the whole thing, which we could gladly have to do thing, which I don't think we're meant to go there. We're talking about people, though, and that right now that is a massive hot topic. Um offshore on shore big thing. Do you think it matters in 20 years time?

Speaker 2: 24:52

I don't think it matters at all. I think we've definitely become more global, more remote.

Speaker 1: 24:56

You think that people will have more on shore, more offshore or balanced?

Speaker 2: 25:00

I think they'll have a balanced approach and look, this is my approach to life in general is balance. I don't too heavy one way to or the other. I think will give imbalances and I think if you find that really perfect blend and you have the right processes and systems and tech in place, it it does actually give you a really balanced, diverse view. Um, so yeah, but everybody will have their preferences, as they do now I see the element I I add in is it's not just outsourced, there's bots here.

Speaker 1: 25:30

Yes, yeah, we have the robot. So I actually wonder in 20 years' time, because we've seen that the cost of an outsourced person is becoming more and more expensive.

Speaker 3: 25:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:40

One of the big calling cards was oh, they're like a fraction of the price. Now, they still are like utilising certain offshore resources, which is still a more affordable or a cheaper solution. The word cheap is not from the word. A more affordable solution, but it's becoming not as affordable.

Speaker 2: 25:55

A lot of people aren't making that decision based on price. They're making it because they can't find the resources available to them here.

Speaker 1: 26:00

I agree, but still a lot of people have been. So if they're not for that, and then there's not as much of a financial incentive too I'd be interested to see in 20 years' time what does that look like?

Speaker 2: 26:10

It could be replaced by tech. Yep could be replaced by tech, so the outsourced model may be it's more a global model rather than outsourced global and tech.

Speaker 1: 26:18

So what happens to the tens of thousands of people that are relying on Australian accounting firms and other?

Speaker 2: 26:23

They're redirected, and I think we're an adaptive species. People adapt, so there will be new jobs that we haven't considered yet. Not every culture will be as tech savvy as what some are, so I think there's gaps and they'll find things to do. And this actually comes back to a socioeconomic thing. If everybody's jobs are going to be replaced by tech which don't actually believe, but if that's the case, then there has to be some level of remuneration from a societal point of view, right. So where do you live and what do you do? And and how is that done? I don't know like that, these are the big existential questions of our time socialist or communist societies.

Speaker 1: 27:02

We're going to move this is going this is deep. This is probably is probably one of the deepest things we've gone through, because these are the types of things that you actually have to consider. You have to.

Speaker 2: 27:10

Because people might be out of jobs and so what do you do with them? But we are in a resource crisis. So you know, like I think it's about redirecting, I think there will be new roles, I think that we'll work with tech, so it's a bit of a two-way thing. We work together in partnership. Who knows? And I think it's. For me, the tech still and always has been around efficiencies and giving people more meaty roles, the roles that they want to do and the jobs that they want to do, rather than the jobs that they don't all right.

Speaker 2: 27:38

So it's offshore, onshore work from home, work in office and I look, I think this is, oh, jesus is the hot topic of 2024, I think, um. So I think it's a hybrid balance. Um, I think there is a necessity for people to connect and see each other, and I often think to myself if you fully work from home, people are going to scream at me. But how do you progress in your career if you're not getting all these new skills and learning and and role modeling from other people? How do you, how do you get that organic learning?

Speaker 1: 28:06

I'm experiencing it with my team. You know I'm personally because of my role now I'm not physically in the office all the time and then I often have to assign and hey, can you guys go and do this kind of thing? And sometimes I'm asking someone to do something they haven't done before. Now they might have the skill set to do it and they might be roughly aligned with what they're doing doing, hey, please go and do this thing. Okay, cool, let's jump on a zoom for 45 minutes to talk you through how to do this thing. And then done. And then I hear back from one of the team leads oh, they're really stressing, they don't know what they're doing. I'm like, oh, wow, okay, cool, I've not experienced.

Speaker 1: 28:34

Whenever I was in the office, I feel like we'll be able to pass that information over there was a lot more support there, so it'll be interesting like if we talk about having a dispersed worldwide team.

Speaker 2: 28:44

We talk about that kind of stuff that suggests yes, they're in order in office and if we have the tech that allows language interpretation real time, that really does eliminate a lot of the global barriers that maybe we foresee now, because that's why this outsource model works? Because you go to the Philippines or India or wherever and they know a lot of English and they learn about the cultural differences and so it makes it a really pliable, workable solution.

Speaker 2: 29:06

But if you eliminate a lot of those barriers, it does automatically explode all of these resources available to global like true global, and so, yeah, there are some constraints with work from home, but I also get that. Work from home is more flexible and it allows you more time to do the things that you want to do, and there's no travel time, et cetera, et cetera. So I honestly think it's a balance.

Speaker 1: 29:31

Do you think that we are going to have non-human colleagues? In 20 years' time.

Speaker 2: 29:38

Yes, I do.

Speaker 1: 29:39

And what do you think that looks like?

Speaker 3: 29:42

Are we going?

Speaker 1: 29:42

to have like a metal box next to us with like a face that pops up on a screen. Oh look, I'm not sure how far they'll go down the augmentation mode of making them look human.

Speaker 2: 29:51

I don't know that part Only. You know sci-fi can do with that bit, but I definitely think they'll be interactive. They'll be, rather than they'll be, voice prompted. You can have a conversation with them. They can take on tasks, report back to you. Um, you know, there's and this is really what the AI is is data analytics, isn't? It's taking a big data and it's pushing out in a usable format. That's all this really is, and so, um to once, it's more a conversational model that breaks down all the barriers, does it not? Because it's easier to tell. You know, it's just like talking to an employee hey, I need this, I need that, do need that, do this, do that, do this, do that, same thing.

Speaker 1: 30:28

I think the big thing there is like a lot of technology that might be voice or command prompted now is you have to make sure you're using the very explicit command too.

Speaker 2: 30:36

It won't be like that.

Speaker 1: 30:37

Please turn on the lights in this room as opposed to, please turn on the lights and they'll know what if you start diving into the ai that's around.

Speaker 2: 30:46

I've been listening to some podcasts on it recently have you really?

Speaker 1: 30:48

yeah, I can see your twitch and now you're like I'm listening.

Speaker 2: 30:50

So excited, I'm so excited and some of the stuff that's coming. It's not very far away, very conversational, um, and I think it's similar to and I've said it before when the internet was around for forever, but people weren't using it. Until there were the googles of the world, until there were the search engines of the world. It made it a usable tool. Ai has actually been around for a really long time. The data analytics models have been around for a really long time. You overlie usability factor, as in conversation voice prompt. It makes it a usable model, so then it becomes quite easy for the majority to use it, and so that's where I see 2024 will be a big year of that. I think we'll see it sooner than what we actually expect. Do I think the robots will be there straight away? No, and do I? It's kind of like doing anything in beta. There's going to be a lot of to and fro, but there will be people that are willing to take it on early to train, to model, to learn and then boom go.

Speaker 1: 31:44

And then boom go, it's good. So last season we did a whole bunch of conversations around people, elements, but moving from like junior to senior, senior to manager and the like. So if you're sitting here and you're wondering, like how to actually transition and we might talk about this, some tips at the end go back and have a listen to those episodes.

Speaker 3: 32:01

Yeah, they're quality episodes Andrew quality.

Speaker 1: 32:07

Now we didn't just talk to our children about the future of people.

Speaker 5: 32:08

We had a chat to some other people too, so we're going to jump on in and see what they are excited about in the future of people within our industry awesome I think if we can keep them in the industry and they still think accounting is a cool thing, if they still think, if they think that accounting is a cool thing, that they can go and do, they have amazing opportunities to do awesome stuff with clients. I think the next generation is much more. I think they're going to be better than we are at actually connecting with what clients need and meshing better with them, so not putting them in boxes. We need you to work in a way that works for us. They will integrate with the way that their clients work and they'll be able to provide better service because of that. Just being more open to different things and not having a way it's always been done that's going to make them so much more effective, I think, than what we are now exciting times mate I know what are you excited.

Speaker 2: 33:09

What are you excited about?

Speaker 3: 33:11

like what?

Speaker 1: 33:12

yeah, what gets you like specifically people?

Speaker 2: 33:13

no, so we're not talking robots, we're talking humans the ability to, for tech to take on the mundane so that they can rise to their superhero strengths, I think, and as a employer, to not have to struggle with a resource crisis and I think I'm just excited by change. I'm excited by new things and the efficiencies that that can bring and having a reduction of mental load.

Speaker 1: 33:42

Do you think people will want to be an accountant in 20 years time?

Speaker 2: 33:46

I will go back to our love episode on accounting as to why. I think that's the truth. I think we are in a people business and we are connectors and we can do some really powerful things. And even Will Buckley said that you know the power and the numbers. It's everywhere. It's prolific in everything that we do. It's numbers based. So, yeah, I truly believe that we'll still be there in the same format. Most probably not.

Speaker 1: 34:11

I'm always challenged by you. Know what's shiny and what's new and what's glitzy?

Speaker 2: 34:13

and what's glamorous right. I understand.

Speaker 1: 34:13

And so over the next 20 years there'll be going to be shiny new.

Speaker 1: 34:16

There's going to be jobs that we've never seen before, and what will happen is that certain jobs that used to be done will no longer need to be done. So think of like crafts, like coach, like, where there's like a handful of people in certain regions that know how to do it and that's it. So if something breaks, you're like geez, I hope johnny's available, otherwise I ain't gonna get fixed for a year. Um, and so like I wonder the elements of accounting does now. We talked about services in our first episode, so go back and have a listen there around the services element, um, but that's what's going to make people attracted to the industries. It's continual relevance within the context of humanity that we operate within.

Speaker 2: 34:50

Yeah, and I think if we can focus on that storytelling element, you know, I think that'll make it a bit more powerful if we actually understand exactly what we do and are able to vocalise that. But does that the?

Speaker 1: 35:00

challenge with the person, then, is we require them to have two skills.

Speaker 2: 35:04

So historically, it was like you need to be good with numbers, I think that that's changing already and, like you need to be good with numbers, I think that that's changing already.

Speaker 1: 35:09

You need to be good with numbers and you need to be a good communicator.

Speaker 2: 35:11

Do you not think that it's changed already? That's my challenge to you.

Speaker 1: 35:13

I don't think it has changed. Sorry, I do think it has changed, but I think it will be even more in the future.

Speaker 2: 35:20

I think that will be the superhero skill in every industry.

Speaker 1: 35:24

I hope I don't offend anyone here by saying this, but I do not believe that the majority of the accountants out there today have both of those skill sets at the level that they need to. Well, I'm not saying that the number of accountants will be the same. The job will still be there.

Speaker 2: 35:42

but will we need as many? Maybe not, Maybe not.

Speaker 1: 35:46

Yeah, I do agree. We might not need as many, you know, and only the strongest survive.

Speaker 2: 35:50

Oh gosh, I sound harsh.

Speaker 1: 35:52

You do. You're just going to start killing people mate? Wow, not at all. You're going to hit the big red button. The robots will do that. But it's interesting though.

Speaker 1: 36:01

So what we're saying is what an accountant in 20 years' time, the type of person that requires is similar but different, and if it's not seen as being a sexy industry or an emerging industry or a massively impactful one, people are going to be less likely to want to do it, and the people that are in it, that got in it because of one thing they were great at, realised they can't do the other thing, and then they're going to stress out and freak out and so people might not feel empowered and connected and loved in the industry as much as they did 10 to 20 years ago possibly possibly we may not be as needed.

Speaker 1: 36:37

You're a unicorn. I can see that the horn on the top of your head not the two horns sparkles oh my gosh, it's the single. But but like you, you are unique in that you have the ability to do both of the number analytical stuff but of the storytelling human element. Yeah, and you would. I think you would agree that that would probably. You're not. That is not a common thing.

Speaker 2: 36:56

No, most probably not.

Speaker 2: 36:58

And that will be the challenge I think, with people, yeah, and I think that's where we get different people attracted to the industry, whether it be, you know, teachers or chefs, or I think different people with different skill sets will maybe, if we can get our verbiage right to the world and and how we're perceived, might actually think oh hey, this is a really great place to be and if I say what I'm excited about, then is I'm excited that we actually give our accounting people the opportunity to be more people than numbers and I think that's exciting.

Speaker 1: 37:26

We get more of their personality more out there. Absolutely, and I think that's exciting.

Speaker 2: 37:28

We get more of their personality, more of them out there Absolutely, and I think this is where that authenticity really kicks into gear. Be yourself, don't be afraid, and I do think that communication is a skill that we will need to improve on into the future, because that's how you direct the tech and the AI. That's how you direct it is through communication, and the better you are at it, the better output you get. But that's the same with people these days, is it not?

Speaker 2: 37:54

It is, it's everywhere, and how you train them and how you communicate and how you educate them, like it's the same thing.

Speaker 1: 37:59

It is. You need to know your stuff. I just look forward to going back in my day we didn't have to bloody do those things, we just.

Speaker 2: 38:06

You can say that now.

Speaker 1: 38:07

Andrew, I can back in my day Because you used a typewriter. I used a typewriter once or twice, very rarely. It wasn't like handwriting things, like you were.

Speaker 2: 38:17

I was handwriting for quite some time with the post stamp.

Speaker 1: 38:21

All right, let's go to our special guest contributors and see what they've got to say about things that might be a little bit uncertain or fearful or a bit scary about in 20 years time.

Speaker 5: 38:32

That we won't have anyone that wants to be an accountant because we'll blow it up. It does scare me but I am hopeful. I think we'll get through this kind of image issue that we've got at the moment and we will retain some awesome people that will inspire some of the next generation and show them there's a pathway to do awesome work with clients that can really light their soul on fire. But it does scare me that there won't be enough of them and it it scares me because still there's so many businesses that need advice and need accountants is a narrow kind of box but needs people like that to support them in their businesses to do the awesome thing they do while someone helps them with their business.

Speaker 1: 39:15

What are you scared about in 20 years' time, mate, when it comes to people, what makes you nervous? What makes you uncertain?

Speaker 2: 39:20

I think what we were just talking about before the fear of what will the tech do, what will the people do? Will they have the necessary skills to do it?

Speaker 1: 39:30

If we as a community broad accounting community are not doing anything to improve our current skill set and train the future skill set of people who are younger and less experienced, it'll be our downfall. We'll be the reason it failed not them. They'll be like man. This is what you guys taught us, this is what you showed us, and you didn't teach us the stuff we need to see now emerging. Um, uh.

Speaker 3: 39:58

You know, generations will also always push the barriers and bring new stuff, just like you and I have done in ours.

Speaker 1: 40:00

I mean, your generation did yours, my generation did mine thank you yes, but I think that is a big fear of mine is, and I know, you know, I'm 12 years in running an accounting business, 20 years as being an accountant, and there are days that it's kind of fucked and and, and I'd like to think I'm a relatively positive and and enthusiastic person, wanting to pass on that knowledge. Yeah, um, and I can imagine that there are a lot of people out there who might not be in that same mindset as me at times, or even people who are then can't be stuffed. It's like, at what point do we go? You know what? I can't be stuffed. I've given this industry everywhere I can to now help to raise these people to do things that I'm not even doing and that they're going to do in the future. How do I do that? You know what? That's the university's problem. Yeah, that's the school's problem.

Speaker 2: 40:47

That's the parent's problem if we, if we push responsibility down to everybody else, then sometimes it just doesn't get done. No, you just but, there's an analogy that I want to use here in relation to the blockbusters and the kodaks of the world who believed that their skill or what they provided to the world was so super important that they would never be replaced.

Speaker 2: 41:06

And look at it. So I think there's this element of I think we need to have a bit of fear factor. I think there is. It's okay to have a bit of fear, because otherwise you'll stay too comfy and you won't do anything about it, and we can't afford to do that. We are on the precipice of change and we have been in constant evolving change. We can't afford to just rest on our laurels and say they'll always need us. People always need compliance or numbers or whatever else, because what if they don't? So I think we just need to have a little bit of fear, which is totally okay, because otherwise you won't evolve.

Speaker 1: 41:40

So what are we going to do about it? What can we do today? Tomorrow next week, next month, the next year to be ready for 20 years' time.

Speaker 2: 41:50

I think it's. I've said it before education, Educate yourself.

Speaker 3: 41:54

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:54

Don't be fearful, don't stick your head in the sand.

Speaker 1: 41:58

I think so. Do we need to see better education out there, like, do we need our universities, do we need our governing bodies? No, there's heaps of content out there.

Speaker 2: 42:04

Well, yeah, look, I think that'll take longer that always takes longer.

Speaker 1: 42:08

So the content that you consume is that via a university or governing body.

Speaker 2: 42:12

No, yeah, it's up to the it's in the commercial world.

Speaker 1: 42:16

So governing bodies and universities, and I know that the majority of people working with you are aware of this, and it's a large ship to turn when you need to change things.

Speaker 2: 42:25

Well, if you don't turn, you will sink. It's a Titanic sink when you need to change things.

Speaker 5: 42:29

Well, if you don't turn you will sink the.

Speaker 2: 42:30

Titanic sank. If you are too big and you cannot move, you will sink because there's so much content available for free, and that's the world that we live in. We don't live in a world anymore where the content was closed behind a firewall that you had to pay for. We don't live in that world anymore.

Speaker 1: 42:44

We just have to be very careful. The content we consume is actually.

Speaker 2: 42:48

It's correct, so you have to do your R&D about that.

Speaker 1: 42:52

Just ask Ali, she'll tell you where to look.

Speaker 2: 42:54

This is a great podcast, and look even on those podcasts. Sometimes they're a bit too far-fetched for me. I'm like nah. I think, you've got to take it with a pinch of salt. But there are bits and pieces where you're like, oh, I'll look into that and I do, I'll research, I'll go and look, I'll talk to other people about it, and so I think the one thing that we shouldn't do is stick our head in the sands. We are not ostriches. Please don't do that. What I, what?

Speaker 1: 43:17

we're australians. What this?

Speaker 2: 43:19

what I want this conversation to do is to broaden your mindset to just start thinking about it. You know how do you eat an elephant but at one part, at a time. One little bit so all we're doing is we're just trying to seed ideas around. What are the types of things that we might need to consider? Look at, open your eyes. It's kind of if you've just. It's like looking up and seeing the sky and the sun and the birds and the clouds.

Speaker 1: 43:42

Just start to look and I think if, like, if history tells me anything is that in 20 years time you'll be fine. Yeah, like, you will learn without even realizing it, you will evolve without even realizing it. In 20 years' time you'll be wearing bright yellow shoes, because today you wouldn't be seen there, but in 20 years' time you think it's going to be amazing. This is a perfect point gradual change.

Speaker 2: 44:02

You're not just going to leap into robots, right. There will be little changes that happen all the time, like. There will be little changes that happen all the time, like, for instance, predictive text One day, it's not there, the next day it is, the next day you're using it. This will be so many little changes that you look back at your practice 10 years ago. Compared to today, there are so many little changes that you made that made it to what it is today. It's gradual, incremental change, day by day, by day.

Speaker 1: 44:25

So the point here is to take a step forward, don't stay still don't stay, still and and, and I think as well as don't be fearful of it yeah because I think when we're afraid of things we, we, we get, like we get too you get the fight or flight. Yeah, we, we rear up, we want to fight back. In a way, it's like no, no, if we can look at this with, uh, an element of concern, but the concern simply being, if I do nothing yeah, so that's where the fear is if I do nothing, then it's a problem.

Speaker 1: 44:52

Okay, cool. If I, if I'm open and I'm receptive and if I can look at opportunity in a positive way, I'll grow, I'll learn and in 20 years time it won't even feel like I've grown, but I will have grown a lot, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 45:03

Yeah, amazing at that, my friend, we're gonna. That's a good way to we're gonna we.

Speaker 1: 45:07

We're going to hear from our special. We're going to get their tips.

Speaker 3: 45:10

Oh, of course, of course, and then we're going to come back and tie the bow.

Speaker 1: 45:11

This is what we do, mate, do you not forget?

Speaker 2: 45:13

how it is. I know we've talked a lot today. This is why you lead the ship.

Speaker 1: 45:16

Sorry, this is why I know what's going on.

Speaker 5: 45:30

I'm way think we should be doing as an individual and as an organisation and as an industry. What should that be? I want to continue to demonstrate that there is a way to light your soul on fire with accounting work, that you can genuinely impact people's lives and that matters. And I think with that, I hope that that will continue to inspire people to come into the industry and do the work that we do amazing good times.

Speaker 2: 45:53

I know so. I think we've learned so much from this.

Speaker 1: 45:56

We've got so many little things that we can do right I feel like every time we have this chat, we we keep going down a further and further rabbit hole. Most of the time, that rabbit hole for you is just AI and tech and tech and AI and tech and tech and tech and AI and robots and robots and robots. Which is cool, like I'm all about, I mean, this is the whole idea of this season is we're talking about the future and it freaks me out, but in a good and a bad way, like we have to explore it, we have to be open to it. But you know what? Let's think this far ahead and let's be aware of it and let's be are about it. I look forward to you rolling out like your robot dog one day and say here's Jimmy, here he is.

Speaker 2: 46:31

Do you know what? I just want somebody to help me with the family side and the mental load there. That would be amazing. That's the first one I'll get.

Speaker 1: 46:41

I was going to say something inappropriate, but I'm not going to say that offline. Thank you, Ali.

Speaker 2: 46:46

We're going to cut to our sponsors to finish off. Yes, thank you again.

Speaker 1: 46:49

How good are they? Amazing humans Appreciate them so much. People who do well and also people who are building cool stuff for the future.

Speaker 2: 46:54

I know which is great Keep going, keep going.

Speaker 1: 46:56

Ali, I'll see you on our next adventure.

Speaker 2: 46:58

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Speaker 2: 49:15

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Speaker 2: 50:04

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Speaker 2: 51:05

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Speaker 1: 52:12

Let Seamless SMSF take care of your SMSF needs so you can take care of living your best life wasn't that a fun adventure, my friends, thank you so much, so incredibly much, for hanging out with us today. Ali, you've been amazing. Andrew, you've been all right. How good is it to be able to have adventures together it so is, and you know what.

Speaker 2: 52:44

Keep following us. We are all over the socials at accounting adventures. Check us out on the website. Give us a bit of a like.

Speaker 1: 52:51

You know how much we love that stuff the best thing about the adventure is the people that we do it with, so thank you so much for listening, thank you so much for hanging out with us, and please bring all the ideas, keep, keep them coming. We can't wait to share more cool adventures with you.