The Future of Accounting: Services - Pricing, Affordability and Accessibility

Speaker 1: 0:01

Ellie.

Speaker 2: 0:02

Yes, Andrew.

Speaker 1: 0:03

Why don't we have any jokes about time travel?

Speaker 2: 0:06

There aren't any jokes about time travel. Why don't we have any jokes about time travel? I don't know. You tell me.

Speaker 1: 0:10

Well, they're a thing of the past.

Speaker 2: 0:14

Back to the future. Maybe that's so overtly obvious. That's actually quite a good one, Well done.

Speaker 1: 0:19

Thank you. I've been working my best to try and get the good ones out there.

Speaker 2: 0:23

I appreciate it, I really do.

Speaker 1: 0:25

Now the theme of the joke normally goes to the topic of the conversation yes topic of the day, but this whole season. We're talking about the future. We're talking about what the future is going to look like. We're talking about what freaks us out about the future what we're excited about and everything in between.

Speaker 2: 0:40

And we're talking like two to three to four. We're thinking big picture and that's, I guess the point I want to make here is that we might be making it up. It's our thoughts.

Speaker 1: 0:49

Yes.

Speaker 2: 0:50

But it's something to think about, because so often, if we don't, we might get lost or caught behind.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Indeed and today, on the Future, freaks Me Out About. The Accounting Industry is all about services. Yes, what we're going to do in the future. In is all about services. Yes, what we're going to do in the future, in 20 years' time, what do we think it looks like? The services that our clients need and the things that we'll be doing so. Let's cue the promo sounds. Let's get the theme song going and we'll come back for another adventure. Let's go All right. Ellie In 20 years' time.

Speaker 2: 1:26

Yes.

Speaker 1: 1:26

You'll be like 35, 40 years old.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Definitely, ellie. In 20 years' time you'll be like 35, 40 years old.

Speaker 1: 1:30

Definitely yes. Thank you, andrew. What a beautiful compliment In experience. Thank you yes, what are you doing? Do you know what? You'll still be an accountant, right, I'll still be an accountant.

Speaker 2: 1:40

I'm going to be an accountant to the day I die. I love it so much. It's in my blood. The thing about services is sometimes, you know you kind of get fixed at it on what you do right, and then it's hard enough to think well, you know, in a year's time what are my services going to be. But I think so often. We think, well, it will just be what we're doing today, but I actually think that we're coming in for some pretty big disruptions.

Speaker 2: 2:00

So well, let's be pretty aware that we need to kind of be on the ball here right like we need to kind of be thinking ahead of time and actually try and put the creative brain on so if we travel back in, something like if we travel back in time?

Speaker 1: 2:14

so yeah, it's my uh, this would be my 20 year anniversary as an accountant this year. So I started 20 years ago.

Speaker 2: 2:20

Congratulations, wonderful wonder what type of present you get. You know, with wedding, with wedding anniversaries, you get particular types of presents.

Speaker 1: 2:25

That's a good point. I don't know what 20 is, maybe a calculator for an accountant.

Speaker 2: 2:28

I don't know who knows.

Speaker 1: 2:29

Gold calculator, please. I'd like a golden one, that would be great. So 20 years ago, fresh out of high school, starting as a cad, I was very high on data entry is what I was doing. So we had some clients who were doing data entry. There was. We still had a typewriter for like one thing. We had to do one thing.

Speaker 2: 2:51

There had to be certain ATO forms or something we had to do, we couldn't digitalize them. But what services were you providing? Was it compliance tax?

Speaker 1: 2:59

Yeah, look, there definitely was. It was almost like I was in like what you'd kind of call small business accounting in the big four environment. It was a lot more like entering the data of the transaction, so that it was able to then be dealt with.

Speaker 1: 3:14

So services-wise we were kind of doing right to the bottom end of it all. And if I think about now, like all of that data entry, we're doing you know we would get checks and we would handle the checks before they get passed through we're doing we would get checks and we would handle the checks before they get passed through. That doesn't happen anymore.

Speaker 2: 3:26

No and there will be less and less and less of the data entry, because that's what the bots and the AI is really really good at that repetitive rote process stuff. But it's going to get better. It's going to start getting intelligence.

Speaker 2: 3:40

It's going to be, able to start actually implementation, et cetera. All of that stuff is actually going to be able to start actually implementation, et cetera. All of that stuff is actually going to be happening, yep, but if I look at the services in compliance and tax, we're mainly data entry. We're still providing those services today, but we're overlaying tech, cloud solutions et cetera to build efficiencies in that.

Speaker 1: 3:57

So I think it's still going to be around, but there most probably be way more efficiencies and less hands-on stuff from us yeah, and I guess, if you look at it back 20 years ago, we were doing everything leading up to having to do the compliance, whereas now we're doing things after the compliance. That's right, and that's where the advisory comes in.

Speaker 2: 4:15

That's where the cloud solutions, for instance, like building those tech stacks for our clients. That's where that comes in. I mean, that wasn't a service yep, you know many, many years. And so I think we need to start looking okay, well, what does that next one look like? What does an AI solution for a client look like? What does you know, how do we bring the human side and I think that's really with our services, where we really need to connect and focus is the human services that we provide that, potentially, technology and AI cannot provide.

Speaker 1: 4:44

So what do you find yourself? What do you think? Let me ask this question better, andrew.

Speaker 2: 4:49

Come on do it better Clicking, clicking In 20 years' time.

Speaker 1: 4:53

What are you not doing that you're doing now?

Speaker 2: 4:58

Paul Meisen's personally going to kill me, but I just don't think that we'll be doing as much. Compliance Compliance will still be there, but I do think that the AI will be doing a large proportion of that or it will be real-time. So real-time data entry through either an AI, et cetera straight off to a government agency and we may be brought in from an audit perspective or an overlying perspective.

Speaker 2: 5:21

I'm not sure but I'm not even sure that that's going to be a thing. I think we're actually going to be more the storytellers, the interpreters, the human element, and I actually think our services will actually be a lot broader and it might not just be accounting. We might have this multifaceted firms where there's psychology involved because that's sometimes where I feel like we're hitting, especially with my clients and advisory, and it might have the law and the financial planning and all that. I think it will be more holistic, it will be more connected.

Speaker 1: 5:52

Because if I look at that tax element and if I think about those services and if I think about, okay, cool, a lot of it is going to be automated and there might be AI, and the government might simply say hey, if you do this, this is what the result is. I could foresee that accountants become more like forensic accountants and auditors in a way of actually going hey, we do not accept the thing that you're suggesting and this is now why, and so?

Speaker 1: 6:11

all of a sudden, we're now starting. We're working on presenting a case that disputes what someone has suggested exists as opposed to us saying, hey, this is the case, and then maybe the ATO or something disputing it. So we're almost on the other side of the conversation now, where some might say we're employed by the ATO, but maybe in 20 years' time we're actually more employed by the client, because now we're more about going no, we have to actually ensure that what the ATO is trying to make you do is actually that isn't correct, we fix it.

Speaker 2: 6:43

I could see that absolutely from a compliance element, Even from an advisory.

Speaker 2: 6:47

I still think there's advisory components within there because, there's so many nuances and I think the AI and the tech can spit out particular. You know you've got to increase sales and do this and do that, but when you're coming down to an advisory meeting and you talk to somebody about HR, there's so much more than just the actual job that they do. There's so many more layers around that they have to unpeel. So I still think the advisory element is there and the real-time data will be hopefully more effective more efficient, easier to rely on.

Speaker 2: 7:15

I'd love it if the forecasting really picked up the game so you could actually have reliable forecasts. I think that's something that I'm excited about. When I'm looking at the ai tools coming in relation to how they can interpret the data and the data set so quickly, um so, hopefully there's a lot more information. Benchmarking, I think, will be absolutely massive. I mean, we're looking at big data pools. How do we dissect that? That's where the ai can over.

Speaker 1: 7:38

I feel like your head's about to explode right now. You, you're going down like this. It's like you're on it, like you're on a on a slide you're going around, you just you were going and going and going. I'm like, I'm like, let me just, let me just rein you in. Let's just focus on one of those things from that.

Speaker 2: 7:53

So sorry, I do get a bit excited we talk tax and maybe what that?

Speaker 1: 7:57

looks like maybe we're more actually being seen to be representing the client, not the ato. Yeah, um, so from advisory element, there's a good point. You've just covered a whole bunch of different stuff, but one of them in particular is like, because everyone talks about, oh, you know, you know, accountants aren't going to be needed as much, I'm like, yeah, like that you could say an element of accounting is isn't, but accountants are, and so what you're touching on there is that's more management accounting, financial accounting, uh, advisory based consulting yes, yes and so it's really moving into more of the yes, we can use technology and things to do the predictive analysis, but the extracting helping people to understand what does that look like?

Speaker 1: 8:33

because I don't know.

Speaker 2: 8:35

Change management helping people implement, I think will be another major component, rather than just telling them what to do, actually helping them to implement it.

Speaker 1: 8:42

Have you ever watched the TV series? Beautiful show, it, hilarious, amazing. The office, the office. You've seen the episode where, um, you know, he's driving his car and following the gps and he's like I'm turning right. It's like, don't turn right, he turned right and he drives straight into a lake because the computer told him to turn to a lake.

Speaker 2: 8:57

That's right.

Speaker 1: 8:57

They can be wrong, so let's fast forward that to like oh, I'm just relying on the AI technology to tell me that this is the decision that I need to do with my finances, with my business. And, oh crap, now I've found myself in a lake, and a lake might be. I've made no money. I've got no cash left, whatever that looks like. And so I think I look at that, overlaying that, with someone who has the knowledge and skill set of what is this thing trying to protect.

Speaker 2: 9:29

And the educational element I think is going to be a large part of the future and it's that real connection as well, connecting with the client. It's the communication, the education. All of that is still incredibly valuable and will still have so much to give that I don't think the tech will be able to give so in that regard. I do think that that's where we enter this human element, the human advisor and I I'm already seeing actually that statement being pushed across.

Speaker 1: 9:51

The marketing um is that we're just, we're the human advisor which is interesting because that's what we're saying now, but I don't think we'll be saying that in 20 years time.

Speaker 2: 9:59

I don't think that there'll be this distinction between humans and bots. Oh, there will be, because we'll have a bot workforce and we'll have a human workforce.

Speaker 1: 10:05

I think we're focusing so much on it now because there's an unknown. But I think in 20 years' time it'll be more of an unknown and I don't know if we'll be pushing it as much.

Speaker 2: 10:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:15

But yeah, I don't know that's that. You know what does that look like? Because I mean, look at the services our clients want. Let's just simply look at the Great Australian Dream, right? So for ages it was said the Great Australian Dream was owning your own home. Now, the housing situation in Australia makes it significantly difficult for a number of people, and maybe I'm biased because of the people I hang around with in the world I play in, but I'd like to think that the Great Australian Dream is maybe transition to running your own business, not owning your own home.

Speaker 2: 10:45

Really.

Speaker 1: 10:49

And being able to say I do my thing and I'm proud of it and I can tell people about it and it gets me out of bed every day. Not every single person is a business owner, not every single person is, so I think there's like a competition between own home and own business.

Speaker 4: 10:59

And.

Speaker 1: 11:00

I've seen a number of people who run their own business who aren't interested in having their own home because, they want to do something cool and amazing with their business.

Speaker 2: 11:06

So you think there'll be more business ownership?

Speaker 1: 11:08

I think there will continue to be and if we even look at it right now, the amount of knowledge or skill set that those business owners or new business owners will need. I think there's a huge opportunity for accountants to really be stepping into enabling and empowering people on what does running a good business. Look like.

Speaker 1: 11:25

So yes there's numbers and finance element, but theoretically we have so much visibility on more than just that. Now we're not going to sit there and consult and advise on HR unless we are in fact a HR expert. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 11:34

I think there's going to be this holistic service offering where we actually bring in all these other people to give this really holistic service offering, Yep, and our part might be smaller or larger in that, I don't know. Yeah, but you know there's also this level of you know I now build cloud solutions for my clients. Will they lean on me for AI solutions Because they don't want to learn it themselves?

Speaker 2: 11:55

Are they tech? Are they a bit behind? Do they really want to, you know, get our knowledge and expertise, because we're kind of really leaning into it? So is that? Another yeah layer here of this is how you use the technology. This is what you can do for your business, you know, staying on the cutting edge.

Speaker 1: 12:13

So helping people to stay on that cutting edge of technology and bring them on the journey with us, I think that might be another service offering as well and if I also think about the future and I think about what does it look like? Think of the number of small businesses that don't exist now, think of the bigger businesses that are buying more and more smaller businesses and kind of becoming a bigger, bigger and business over and over again and and I think in Australia we've got elements of that, where you've got a lot of chains and bits and pieces here. But I feel like when I travel overseas I see a lot more of it. You know you go into a town and you know there's gonna be half a, if not 25, different chain elements of a thing, whether it's a pizza shop, a cafe, a petrol station, a supermarket, a florist and everything in between.

Speaker 1: 12:52

And I wonder if we're going to see more and more of that, which might actually debate my previous comment around more businesses and that Well, we might not see more smaller businesses, because a lot of smaller businesses might be bought out, overtaken, overrun or, like just you know, failed because of the inability to compete with big business. And so I wonder what that looks like from our skill set as accountants, I wonder-.

Speaker 2: 13:14

I think this is one of the most difficult things when we're trying to foresee the future. There's so much unknown, right, there's so much unknown.

Speaker 1: 13:21

Let me just get the time machine.

Speaker 2: 13:23

I know. So, and some of the one of the questions I wanted to work through is what scares you in? Relation to the services side of the future.

Speaker 1: 13:34

Well, before we get into that, oh, okay. We have for this season and this season only, or maybe for future seasons.

Speaker 2: 13:40

Who knows, I don't know what the future brings. Never say never, andrew. Never say never.

Speaker 1: 13:43

But we seasons who know, I don't know what the future never I do. Never say never, but we really want to, given that we're talking 20 odd years in advance. Um, you and I have understanding, but we have a very biased understanding given the world we sit in yeah and so we wanted to reach out to some people out there who spend a bit more time actually looking at this and developing this stuff, and so, uh, a friend of ours, david boyer, yes ceo of a change dps um, which, if you don't know of Dave and what he does, you should check him out.

Speaker 1: 14:06

They do some cool tools for accountants. Not a sponsor of the podcast, though, david, so come on mate pull your head in.

Speaker 2: 14:12

They're just coming off of a road show, so maybe they've got they've got a choir, they'll probably get some cash anyway.

Speaker 1: 14:19

But David spends a lot of his time in working with accountants on the services they provide and how they can provide them well. And so I hit up Dave and I said hey, mate, do you reckon you can give us some of your insight into what you think it looks like in 20 years time?

Speaker 2: 14:32

Awesome.

Speaker 1: 14:32

And we asked him a few questions, and so obviously one of them is what do we think that looks like? So what are you excited about the future?

Speaker 3: 14:50

So we're going to check over. We should map what we do now because it's going to be the same. Right now, an accountant bridges the gap between what a small business owner wants to do in their life and what the ATO requires them to do. The big difference that's going to be between now and 20 years, irrespective of what the ATO chooses, is that we'll be at the end of the great wealth transfer. In 20 years' time about $3.5 trillion of wealth will be transferred down from the boomer generation to guys like us and people of our age group.

Speaker 3: 15:16

So your client in 20 years is going to be very wealthy. They're going to have the wealth that they've accumulated in their lifetime and the wealth that their parents accumulated and this isn't Gina Reinhardt or the Packers or the Murdochs and for any succession fans out there, this is mum and dad bought a property in Australia sometime between 1970 and 1995 or now their kids are getting a million bucks each. That's where Australia is going. It's property and SMSF. So accounts are going to have very wealthy clients. Service propositions that should happen for those clients will still be, whatever their regulatory obligations are.

Speaker 3: 15:52

But I can see a boom in private family offices because you are going to have wealth in small businesses and wealth in family groups beyond anything we've ever had in the past, and people need to know what they're going to do with that. Coinciding with that is what happens to the multidisciplinary firm. We've had so much disruption to wealth managers in Australia on the back of Royal Commission and that still needs to be solved. So we've got a wealth industry that is going through its own transformation, an accounting industry who's got clients who are about to inherit a massive, who will have inherited a massive amount of wealth, and the service that needs to be provided will be somewhere between wealth management, tax compliance and then, if the asset that the family has is a trading business, it's going to be part of the accountant's role to make sure that trading business is optimized.

Speaker 1: 16:41

All right you, david, thank you, david, that was very wise that was very well, and we laugh because, like, obviously we're splicing that in, but we we haven't had a chat with david, so it's all good why it's what a wise man he's so wise, so wise.

Speaker 2: 16:55

we should have listened to that before we said rps, because then we would have been even wiser, we we could have added on top, but anyway it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1: 17:00

I don't want to steal his thoughts and ideas. I want to let them be his. That's true.

Speaker 2: 17:02

At least we know that they're fully his and only his. Yes, all right. So now we know what excites us, what the frig scares us about the potential service offerings that the future might hold for us, and I'll go first.

Speaker 1: 17:19

Please, as I have a quick sip of my beverage.

Speaker 2: 17:21

Thank you, that we may not. This is slurping. That's disgusting.

Speaker 1: 17:31

There may not be a service. Look, that's a big call to start with. I mean, I was maybe going to go there, but not straight away, but yeah, look you know what?

Speaker 2: 17:37

Let's just dive deep, dive straight there, because that's what people think right. In 20 years' time that we'll be replaced.

Speaker 1: 17:42

Well, the ATO. I remember the ATO commissioner a couple of years ago at Xero concert on stage and said that individual tax returns will be a thing of the past soon.

Speaker 2: 17:50

Yes.

Speaker 1: 17:52

You know there's a lot of talk about governments going. It would just simply be easier if we just gave you an acceptable deduction and said you can take this if you'd like, and then you can choose to go more if you want, which makes me think, like if the number of people that don't like the government there's going to be, plenty of work.

Speaker 1: 18:08

So I'm like I don't know that. But there is like how much are people going to start to rely on technology as opposed to us? And go, well, why would I use you, I can use the tech for it, and the result is practically the same. What's the difference?

Speaker 2: 18:20

And this is where this level of distrust in society. There's always some people that will trust it and some people that won't, and so this is where I actually think there will be still, and I believe the distinction will be larger between technology or bots and humans.

Speaker 1: 18:35

And so what you're saying is we just need to start creating a lot more like conspiracy theories around governments to like you know something about cash or something about you know Slender man or whatever the kind of things out there we could do or create case studies of where it's gone wildly wrong and why they need a human on top of it and look as the technology evolves.

Speaker 2: 18:52

There will be case studies that come forward where somebody's relied too heavily on the tech and it's completely and utterly wiped them out, and it's completely and utterly wiped them out, and they drive into a lake, for instance payroll right? Yeah, right, like there might be some issues around payroll. Somebody's given payroll to a bot and it's completely and utterly stuffed it, and now you've got to deal with the consequences of that.

Speaker 2: 19:08

So, I think there'll be a healthy layer of distrust that I'm not sure that we should manipulate, but I think there'll always be an element of human. But there might be some that are just totally and utterly comfortable with going with AI. They don't see the value in the services that we provide and go no, I don't want to pay for that, I don't need to yeah, and maybe they're the people that you know do it themselves these days and then come to us for help later so it might be the same version of that, but just, you know, highlighted, you know, um, now we are going to be talking about tech, uh, as like a standalone episode.

Speaker 1: 19:38

so we're talking about service, but we are going to be talking about tech, as like a standalone episode, so we're talking about service, but we're also going to be talking about people. But I think, for me, the other thing that freaks me out is the people element, but people element from the services that we might need to provide. So like how do we find the kind of people who can do the kind of things that we need to do if they're not what we would consider a stereotypical accountant today?

Speaker 2: 19:59

Yeah, but I think we're struggling with that even today, so we're having to get a bit more creative than what we used to.

Speaker 1: 20:07

Yeah, but if we think about it, like if I've got a business owner that sits here and they are now asking for me, which they do currently, but maybe more in the future oh, I need more guidance on this, or can you please review what the government has said? My refund should be and provide an alternative thing, and we have to do things differently, and whatnot as opposed to here is the documents, put the number in the box and make sure it's as good as it can be. Like, the kind of people that we might need might be different and so, like, how do we get the people who have the desire to do the things that might be harder, more complex and more challenging? Because for me, I look at that in 20 years time and I go I feel like we're doing deeper work, but to be able to do deeper work, we need to be deeper people.

Speaker 2: 20:49

And so maybe how we train and educate ourselves and how we train and educate our team has to change.

Speaker 1: 20:54

We'll cover that on our people episode.

Speaker 2: 20:56

Absolutely, but it's definitely something to be mindful of. But it does impact service greatly, because that's what a lot of people say they struggle with in relation to providing services because they don't have the right people in the right spots with the right skills.

Speaker 1: 21:08

Simply can't do it.

Speaker 2: 21:11

And so they have to move it and change around what they're currently doing so that they can deliver something to their clients.

Speaker 1: 21:19

So definitely something to be mindful of, and business models will change, which is going to be another episode. I'm just rolling all the ones out. All right, I've got another one that's going to scare me about in terms of services Is what are people going to be willing to pay for it? So like if, all of a sudden, we're comparing ourselves with a piece of technology. Yeah, now I am starting to see that tech in the accounting space is becoming a bit more expensive. Is not the right word to?

Speaker 2: 21:46

use it accumulates is, I think.

Speaker 1: 21:48

But even baseline what these tech companies are saying. This is what we should be charging is probably becoming a bit more realistic and thus maybe our services are becoming a bit more competitive than they were. For the oh, it's just $20 a month. Now it's $200 a month. And you're like, oh, hot on $200 a month now makes me question whether I want to use it or not. But yeah, in 20 years' time, what is that technology going to cost for someone to potentially automate 95% of it, versus to get us to be involved with that technology or to do it ourself?

Speaker 1: 22:18

And thus they go. Well, oh no, I'd love Ali to do the work. Like 500 bucks and Ali's sitting there going, it's a 10 grand job. I just can't feed my family with that.

Speaker 2: 22:32

So they'll offer you up an AI prescribed thing and then just say work from that. You'd be like no.

Speaker 1: 22:36

And so does that mean we're just doing a lot more work for a lot less return, and this is the value proposition.

Speaker 2: 22:41

We have to be really strong on our value proposition to be able to sell it and say no, the value. This is the value I'm providing. It's the human element that I'm providing. It's the 30 years of knowledge that I'm giving you, that you know you have to pay for here, and it's the knowledge that you can come back and ask questions, that we can have a two-way conversation about it, that we can do the what-if scenarios around it, that we can look further and deeper.

Speaker 1: 23:08

Um, and I know the prompts- yeah, you know so well, this is. This is my joke on the technology world, as we're just coming back to, like you know, data inputting. You know we're just data entry people because we're prompting, yeah what to put in to get what out.

Speaker 2: 23:21

But then we also have to analyze the out.

Speaker 1: 23:23

But in 20 years' time the tech might be able to do that.

Speaker 2: 23:26

And look it most probably will.

Speaker 1: 23:30

Because it'll have more than 20 years' experience, because it'll have analyzed hundreds of years of data from everywhere.

Speaker 2: 23:34

So we're just literally verifying.

Speaker 1: 23:36

Yeah, so does that mean people are willing to pay for that?

Speaker 2: 23:40

Well, yes.

Speaker 1: 23:41

And what are they going to be willing to pay for?

Speaker 2: 23:42

It's the trust level, isn't it? They're paying for the level of trust, authenticity and human.

Speaker 1: 23:46

You know what we should go to David? I want to know what David is scared about in the future? Absolutely, because I'd be interested to see. So, david, what are you scared about, buddy?

Speaker 3: 23:55

In 20 years' time is time. Accountants should be scared that their clients are going to leave them. In America we have a case study of multi-generational wealth transfers. We're a young country so this is new to us. Data out of the States show that once a person inherits their money and the estate is wound up, 70% of them change advisors. So accountants need to be ready that if they're looking after the matriarch or patriarch that once they go, the kids are going to leave, you need to think about what services you're going to be offering that next generation, how you can engage them now so that they preserve multi -years of your firm as you go on. That's if you want your firm to go on. Of course, there's plenty of M&A activity in accounting land and you can choose not to do that.

Speaker 3: 24:41

Accountants, I'm scared that accountants are going to lose friends when their clients die. I'm scared that accountants are going to feel lack of gratitude because they've worked, they've literally walked step-by-step with their clients for 30 years to build this wealth and the second that matriarch or patriarch goes, the kid's out the door. That's going to hurt accountants. That's going to hurt. You're going to lose a friend and then you're going to feel like the beneficiary is not grateful for the effort that you put in, and I've already seen that with accountants now. So accountants need to be prepared for that. And then accountants also need to be prepared for what happens if you retain that client and the kid isn't as savvy as mum and dad and they spend their money on lifestyle assets and they blow the family wealth. What are you going to do to be involved in that? I can see a whole service line being developed around financial literacy for clients to protect the risk of that not happening.

Speaker 1: 25:29

David is a strong man, but I appreciate you sharing what you're scared about there, david, not knowing what you've shared about.

Speaker 2: 25:36

Makes him strong.

Speaker 1: 25:37

Makes you strong. That's good. We can get in a cuddle group later and we'll hug it out.

Speaker 2: 25:42

We'll just hug it out absolutely Sing kumbaya around the fire.

Speaker 1: 25:46

All right. So to wrap a nice bow on this and we're all about action, we're all about what can people do going forward. We really need to touch on what's something that people can do today to get better, to be more prepared, to be ready for it. Yeah, what are you thinking there, mate?

Speaker 2: 26:01

Well, I think and I do it, and I have done it ever since Cloud came in and everything before it is to listen to podcasts, to go to webinars, to look at what other people are doing in the community, to ask questions, to be curious, to not be fearful, to look at what I can do today and just take little baby steps towards where you think it's going to be. But don't live in denial that's.

Speaker 1: 26:30

That's a good one. I'm in Australia, not Egypt, but don't live in the Murray.

Speaker 1: 26:33

Maybe denial the Murray oh, lord, but no, I like, I like that so like I think it is interesting and what you've touched on is something that I do see a lot out there and I kind of liken it and it's probably not the right turn of phrase for it, but I call it the business owner mindset. I know we talked a lot about this in the last season, but the mindset of what am I learning, what am I growing, how am I doing better, like I'm seeking out stuff as opposed to what's in front of my desk and what am I going to do today, yeah, um, and and I think that's that's an important characteristic to to really develop in the coming years. I mean, someone sitting here today who's at the end of their career would say, yeah, look, andrew, 20 years ago, there's been a huge amount of change in the 20 years before that. So, like, what do you need to get good at? Well, the stuff that we've already actually good at.

Speaker 1: 27:24

So it's all that crazy, but in my defense, for someone who's 20 years old or 30 years old, they haven't gone through 20 years of change. They haven't experienced that within their industry. So I think you know, having that business owner mindset understanding, well, what do I need to learn about? If, if ai is a thing that's coming. Where can I get my fill in that? And whether that it's not saying you have to be an expert on it. But it's like, how do you keep up to date with what's going on? How do you ensure that you know the way you're communicating, your services is working well, you know? So that's marketing and branding.

Speaker 1: 27:56

That is you know pricing methodologies. That is, you know, looking at the tech that you use to deliver your service and making sure it's running well so you can deliver an efficient service, so it is still a profitable service as well, and then the people you need for it. So it is really staying up with the trends and, ideally, trying to look three or four years ahead as opposed to 10 minutes ahead.

Speaker 2: 28:17

Yep, absolutely, because you don't need to look 20.

Speaker 1: 28:19

I mean, we're looking 20 years ahead because we're crazy, but realistically like. If you're trying to build your business today for what it looks like in 20 years, I think you're missing 15 years well, I think it would be nearly.

Speaker 2: 28:28

It would be incredibly difficult because the technology that will be available then we can't even think or fathom, yeah, about it. Now I mean, blow our little minds.

Speaker 1: 28:36

You've probably sat in one of the conferences in the past where the blokes on the stage and he's like and look at this accounting firm from insert, you know know North. America or something, and they've automated and they use blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and it's like, yeah, they told us that 10 years ago and it's still not really a thing.

Speaker 4: 28:52

It's still people behind it.

Speaker 2: 28:53

It's not that, but it's going to get better. It is yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:56

So I think there's that difference between fear and opportunity is probably what I'm thinking here here and you've just got to find that balance.

Speaker 2: 29:02

And everybody's balance is different. Everybody's equilibrium is at a different point.

Speaker 1: 29:06

It is, it is indeed.

Speaker 2: 29:07

Oh, that's really deep. Let's end there.

Speaker 1: 29:09

Well, we've got to see what David thinks we should prepare. Oh, okay, fair enough, because David has also thought about something that he could be doing oh good. So, David, for your last piece of thought, for your last little bit we're going to tie a bow on this once you're done, but in lightness. What on earth can we be doing now and in the future to be more prepared for 20 years' time?

Speaker 3: 29:28

The thing that any accountant can do now to prepare for 20 years' time and honestly, Andrew, I'd argue with you if we should be bothering about getting ready for 20 years' time as small practice owners, but that might be a different debate. The thing we can do now is making sure our clients are ready in this great wealth transfer. The best chance we have of retaining our clients children is to make sure they are engaged in the process of wealth transition so they understand what's they're getting and they understand what their world's going to look like in 20 years time when this event happens. This event's going to be very sad.

Speaker 3: 30:02

People are going to die, not because of bad thing, but it's just the human. It's the 100% known in humanity For a very long time. People like to throw around the phrase death and taxes. Well, accountants already have taxes. What happens when the people paying the tax die? So the thing accountants can do right now is get their clients ready with their estate planning and their asset protection so that, whatever happens in 20 years' time, throughout this wealth transition, they are leaking as little as possible into tax and into people outside their family group who might challenge the family wealth.

Speaker 3: 30:41

That's I think what accountants can do right now. The tech that we use now is almost definitely going to change in the next 20 years. It's hard to think that we're going to be using the same app stack that we use now in 20 years' time, and I've also got a sort of hidden theory that we're going to be using probably 90% less apps in 20 years than we will now, because we'll just be using all the apps that have the most amount of historical data. I think we're all going to move into that world.

Speaker 2: 31:08

Thank you, David. That was incredibly insightful. I reckon I'm going to start taking those actions today.

Speaker 1: 31:13

You reckon, yeah, oh, I reckon you probably will. You're definitely an action taker.

Speaker 2: 31:18

I am, I'm a doer.

Speaker 1: 31:19

Love that Well, ellie.

Speaker 2: 31:21

Thank you no thank you, no, thank you.

Speaker 1: 31:22

We're excited I know we're scared, but we're prepared.

Speaker 2: 31:25

Oh, I love it. Good wrap-up.

Speaker 1: 31:27

How good is that, and the best wrap-up is for us to go and thank our incredible sponsors for supporting this podcast. So stick on, have a quick little listen of the people who make this thing possible. Thank you for joining us on the journey, Ellie. Until the next adventure.

Speaker 2: 31:46

Keep on rolling. Hey, team Ali, from All In here, and I want to talk to you about something that's not just close to my heart, but also crucial to the future of our industry. We are in the midst of an accounting talent crisis, but fear not, because I found a beacon of hope in Tower Global. Tower Global isn't just any outsourcing firm. It's a leading global accounting staffing solution. That's been an absolute game changer for me. In a time when finding skilled accountants feels more like searching for a needle in a haystack, toa steps in as the magnet we've all been waiting for. With over a decade dedicated exclusively to the accounting industry, toa Global has connected more than 3,700 accountants and bookkeepers in the Philippines with firms that desperately need their expertise. It's a match made in accounting heaven, helping over 1,000 firms grow on their own terms. So what sets Toa apart? It's their unmatched ability to tap into elite offshore accounting talent, bringing on board individuals who are not just skilled but passionate about making a difference in the world of numbers. So if you're feeling the pressure of the talent shortage, consider how a partnership with Toa might just be the solution you've been searching for, and take it from me and Andrew from Illuminate we've navigated these challenges firsthand and we've integrated Toa Global's elite talent into All In and Illuminate, and it's been transformative. It's not just about filling positions. It's about enhancing your team's dynamic with professionals who bring fresh perspectives and robust skills to the table. So if you're ready to turn the tide on the accounting talent crisis and propel your firm to new heights, I encourage you to visit toaglobalcom your firm to new heights. I encourage you to visit toaglobalcom. Discover for yourself how TOA can help you grow, not just in numbers, but in capability and impact.

Speaker 2: 33:37

I want to talk to you about one of my favorite software products, and it's something so beautiful and simple. It is Fusign, my friends, and that is digital signing, done simply. It is affordable, intuitive and it's easy to use, and I can assure you that that is what you need to build efficiencies in your practice. It's easy to use from the team's perspective, to build beautiful document packs that you can send out to clients. It's easy for the clients to use. I've got an 85-year-old client who uses it and loves it. There is nobody that cannot use this product. It was made by an accountant for accountants and that is why it is so intuitive.

Speaker 2: 34:22

Ever wanted to send documents to parties, but you didn't want them to see all of the documents in the pack. Well, here you can actually select who sees it and who doesn't, who signs it and who doesn't. No more having to send five different signing packs. It is the absolute bomb. And also it integrates with some fantastic products. Think of the likes of FYI, bgl, and the list goes on and on and on. This is definitely an electronic signature platform that you want to get onto. So crack at it, peeps.

Speaker 2: 35:04

I want you to picture this you're knee deep in paperwork, drowning in a sea of ATO documents that seem to multiply overnight. Sound familiar, because it was for me. Well, fear not, because ATO Smart Docs is here to save the day, and it certainly saved the day at all. In With ATO Smart Docs, processing ATO documents is an absolute breeze. No more time spent downloading, renaming, filing the ATO docs. It connects to the ATO overnight, automatically downloading all of those documents and organising them for you. So they're ready to go.

Speaker 2: 35:39

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Speaker 4: 36:57

Ali, you've been amazing. Andrew, you've been all right. How good is it to be able to have adventures together it so is, and you know what?

Speaker 2: 37:04

following us, we are all over the socials at Accounting Adventures. Check us out on the website. Give us a bit of a like. You know how much we love that stuff.

Speaker 4: 37:19

The best thing about the adventure is the people that we do it with. So thank you so much for listening, thank you so much for hanging out with us and, please, all the ideas keep breaking and becoming. We can't wait to share more cool adventures with you.